Can old style jumper cables damage new cars?

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The Riv owners manual has jump start instructions. IIRC, basically to jump another car you start the Riv and let it run 10 min or so to put a charge on the other battery, then turn off and disconnect and start. To jump the Riv you let the other car charge the Riv battery via the terminals under the hood, then disconnect and attempt start.

Albertj

meh, thats why you don't jump a car with a batt as flat as a pancake and then just pull off the jumper cables. If its that flat, use a smart charger.

If you are stranded somewhere, the batt shouldn't be so flat that you can't just give it a quick jump and have it running on its own with no trouble. If it is, its your own dumb fault for not monitoring batt life and changing accordingly.

and, as Albertj said, the manual has the procedure, for any old cable thats in good shape.

I think the main advantage to 'modern' cables is the idiot-proof circuit for polarity. How well, how quickly, or how many times their surge-protection will work is anybody's guess, just like the power strips for your home electronics...

I will say that if I find a car with a really dead battery, I instinctively let the good car charge it for at least 10 minutes to lessen the "sink hole" effect of the low battery, and then will let both cars run together for another 5 minutes so that there will be less of the imbalance that Goss is talking about, when I do disconnect.

I usually use a jumper pack for starting a car with a dead battery. I don't think removing that would have the same effect on the electrical system.

Seems like an ad device for the buying of newer jumper cables. I'll keep my die-hards, thank you.

It also doesn't help that more and more cars nowadays have tiny alternators that aren't intended to jump another car. Our larger 140 amp units can perform this task much easier.

I like the part about jumping a hybrid: "Grab the wrong wire on a hybrid and you could be killed instantly...like shoving your hand into the wires behind the protective panel on the breaker box in your house...except there's nearly three times more voltage."

Oops! You're dead!

Quote :

I usually use a jumper pack for starting a car with a dead battery. I don't think removing that would have the same effect on the electrical system.

Anyone ever try the "hillbilly jumpstart"? It's when you take a battery off the shelf (top post type), flip it upside down, then touch terminals with the one in the vehicle. It has been known to work!

AA wrote:

Seems like an ad device for the buying of newer jumper cables. I'll keep my die-hards, thank you.

It also doesn't help that more and more cars nowadays have tiny alternators that aren't intended to jump another car. Our larger 140 amp units can perform this task much easier.

I like the part about jumping a hybrid: "Grab the wrong wire on a hybrid and you could be killed instantly...like shoving your hand into the wires behind the protective panel on the breaker box in your house...except there's nearly three times more voltage."

Oops! You're dead!

Quote :

I usually use a jumper pack for starting a car with a dead battery. I don't think removing that would have the same effect on the electrical system.

Anyone ever try the "hillbilly jumpstart"? It's when you take a battery off the shelf (top post type), flip it upside down, then touch terminals with the one in the vehicle. It has been known to work!

Whoever wrote that tidbit about grabbing a wire on a hybrid probably has never opened one. They don't make it easy to get to the high tension wires. When you have a little time on your hands go take a look for yourself.

"Hillbilly jumpstart" isn't funny. Most people know that even "Sealed" batteries can leak acid when you flip them.

Finally - the weight savings from a smaller capacity alternator can't offset the utility advantages of a larger capacity one?!? That must be the car companies hazing people who buy smaller cars via engineering in the problems.

Albertj

Heck, I've continued to jump cars the way I always have.
I've jumped several using the Riviera here at work since I seem to be the only one to carry jumper cables in all my cars.
Never gave it any additional thought.

AA wrote:

Anyone ever try the "hillbilly jumpstart"? It's when you take a battery off the shelf (top post type), flip it upside down, then touch terminals with the one in the vehicle. It has been known to work!

Some 30 years ago, a friend's car was flooded, and refused to spin over fast enough to start when the temp was below zero.

We came up with the idea of using 2 pairs of cables, jumped the 2 batteries so they were wired in series, and had the 2 cars touch bumpers for ground.
It worked!
24 volts will spin an engine over pretty damn good.
Did it on a few other occasions over the years.
Wouldn't dare do it to a modern car today, but back then there was nothing worse than a flooded Mopar at -15*!

Sweepspear wrote:

Some 30 years ago, a friend's car was flooded, and refused to spin over fast enough to start when the temp was below zero.

We came up with the idea of using 2 pairs of cables, jumped the 2 batteries so they were wired in series, and had the 2 cars touch bumpers for ground.
It worked!
24 volts will spin an engine over pretty damn good.
Did it on a few other occasions over the years.
Wouldn't dare do it to a modern car today, but back then there was nothing worse than a flooded Mopar at -15*!

I like it! But there must have been drink or smoke involved...

Eldo wrote:

I like it! But there must have been drink or smoke involved...

Back then, definitely. Usually both.

Sweepspear wrote:

Eldo wrote:

I like it! But there must have been drink or smoke involved...

Back then, definitely. Usually both.

Reminds me of climbing a crushed rock hill on a Saturday night in high school, and using the E-brake to give the pickup truck Posi...

I once destroyed a perfectly good die hard trying to jump start me 87 lesabre. Had the battery hooked up with jumper cables to the car (its battery was stone dead). After a few seconds of cranking it just stopped cranking. The negative terminal MELTED off my die hard! Needless to say, that starter got replaced, and I lost an excellent battery. I tried repairing the terminal, let me tell you this, NEVER TRY IT!

moldymac wrote:

I once destroyed a perfectly good die hard trying to jump start me 87 lesabre. Had the battery hooked up with jumper cables to the car (its battery was stone dead). After a few seconds of cranking it just stopped cranking. The negative terminal MELTED off my die hard! Needless to say, that starter got replaced, and I lost an excellent battery. I tried repairing the terminal, let me tell you this, NEVER TRY IT!

Ohhhhhh, TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!

Has anyone else ever taken a hydrogen explosion full in the face?

Eldo wrote:

moldymac wrote:

I once destroyed a perfectly good die hard trying to jump start me 87 lesabre. Had the battery hooked up with jumper cables to the car (its battery was stone dead). After a few seconds of cranking it just stopped cranking. The negative terminal MELTED off my die hard! Needless to say, that starter got replaced, and I lost an excellent battery. I tried repairing the terminal, let me tell you this, NEVER TRY IT!

Ohhhhhh, TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!

Has anyone else ever taken a hydrogen explosion full in the face?

Maybe a little. Its also a good idea not to try to fix one after having a few .
A friend and I melted some old lead solder (solid lead) and re-poured the terminal, It didnt come out right, so I used a propane torch to try to melt it a little (on the battery) to reform it. Apparently there was a pinhole leak by the terminal, the plastic caught fire (small flame) and some gas escaped and made a pretty damn loud bang. Needless to say that was enough of a warning to stop screwing with it and junk the battery.

Well, I was stone sober, but it didn't help...

I came out of Jack in the Box to find a no-start/no-click/no-nothing condition in my '73 Grand Am. Upon opening the hood, I found that one of the side terminals of my Interstate battery had broken off... and no, the battery was tied down properly, with no excess strain on the cables.

Even with a shop in the family, they were to busy to bring me a new battery, so I foolishly tried to jam the terminal back together enough to get one more start out of it. Apparently I also had a leak in the case around the terminal, and the spark set off the hydrogen in the battery...

Strangely, I wasn't conscious of a big bang, just a mild 'foomp' and everything went white. Fortunately in those days, fast food joints weren't just employing the lowest common denominator. The manager who was on duty when I wandered back in a daze to use the bathroom had been an EMT... So he grabbed me and held me under the big sink in the kitchen for 20 minutes to make sure the acid was washed off my face and out of my eyes.

I got out of it with a couple of cuts from the flying plastic, and a scratched cornea that healed in 2 days. Needless to say, I've been verrrrry careful with side terminals ever since.

Holy Shit. You were damned lucky you weren't disfigured for life.
Battery Acid to the face and eyes, I don't even want to think about it.
After that incident I'd be carrying around a box of Baking Soda from now on, just in case.

Eldo wrote:

Fortunately in those days, fast food joints weren't just employing the lowest common denominator. The manager who was on duty when I wandered back in a daze to use the bathroom had been an EMT...

It's o.k., when all the jobs have gone overseas your high level people will be back working at Jack in the Box again. If they aren't already.

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Fortunately in those days, fast food joints weren't just employing the lowest common denominator. The manager who was on duty when I wandered back in a daze to use the bathroom had been an EMT...

It's o.k., when all the jobs have gone overseas your high level people will be back working at Jack in the Box again. If they aren't already.

Not with millions of illegal aliens working for LE$$...

Eldo wrote:

Well, I was stone sober, but it didn't help...

I came out of Jack in the Box to find a no-start/no-click/no-nothing condition in my '73 Grand Am. Upon opening the hood, I found that one of the side terminals of my Interstate battery had broken off... and no, the battery was tied down properly, with no excess strain on the cables.

Even with a shop in the family, they were to busy to bring me a new battery, so I foolishly tried to jam the terminal back together enough to get one more start out of it. Apparently I also had a leak in the case around the terminal, and the spark set off the hydrogen in the battery...

Strangely, I wasn't conscious of a big bang, just a mild 'foomp' and everything went white. Fortunately in those days, fast food joints weren't just employing the lowest common denominator. The manager who was on duty when I wandered back in a daze to use the bathroom had been an EMT... So he grabbed me and held me under the big sink in the kitchen for 20 minutes to make sure the acid was washed off my face and out of my eyes.

I got out of it with a couple of cuts from the flying plastic, and a scratched cornea that healed in 2 days. Needless to say, I've been verrrrry careful with side terminals ever since.

Glad to hear you came out ok Mark!

One of the jobs I had when I was 20-21, was delivering auto parts and tires to shops.
I made a regular stop at a garage where one of the mechanics was leaning over the fender of a Chevelle, when all of a sudden I heard a noise,
(Foomp is the perfect description.) and immediately the guy was running around screaming, holding his face.
The battery had burst in his face. We got him on the ground and another guy grabbed a garden hose and started dousing him with water while we waited for the ambulance.
The memory is indelibly marked in my mind. I have thought about it every time I am working under the hood near the battery, being extremely careful were tools may fall.

Jee-e-e-z, you guys have some hardcore battery stories. My most painful experience was when I was about 20. Working on my '76 Dodge, wearing a stainless steel Seiko watch. Somehow I managed to reach my hand between the posi post and frame and then some big sparks. The watch got so hot that it burned my wrist instantly, causing a wrap of blisters that matched the pattern of the band. I couldn't get the damn thing off, so it got me pretty good. Thankfully, no explosion!

To this day, I still wear that watch, and it still works great! And you can see the two contact points where 800 amps worth of electrons traveled through, little weld marks pretty deep in the metal.

Sweepspear wrote:

Heck, I've continued to jump cars the way I always have.
I've jumped several using the Riviera here at work since I seem to be the only one to carry jumper cables in all my cars.
Never gave it any additional thought.

AA wrote:

Anyone ever try the "hillbilly jumpstart"? It's when you take a battery off the shelf (top post type), flip it upside down, then touch terminals with the one in the vehicle. It has been known to work!

Some 30 years ago, a friend's car was flooded, and refused to spin over fast enough to start when the temp was below zero.

We came up with the idea of using 2 pairs of cables, jumped the 2 batteries so they were wired in series, and had the 2 cars touch bumpers for ground.
It worked!
24 volts will spin an engine over pretty damn good.
Did it on a few other occasions over the years.
Wouldn't dare do it to a modern car today, but back then there was nothing worse than a flooded Mopar at -15*!

They do make automotive batteries with three terminals, one 12V positive, one 12V negative and one 16V positive for starting only. They're usually used with high compression race motors.

Sweepspear wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Well, I was stone sober, but it didn't help...

I came out of Jack in the Box to find a no-start/no-click/no-nothing condition in my '73 Grand Am. Upon opening the hood, I found that one of the side terminals of my Interstate battery had broken off... and no, the battery was tied down properly, with no excess strain on the cables.

Even with a shop in the family, they were to busy to bring me a new battery, so I foolishly tried to jam the terminal back together enough to get one more start out of it. Apparently I also had a leak in the case around the terminal, and the spark set off the hydrogen in the battery...

Strangely, I wasn't conscious of a big bang, just a mild 'foomp' and everything went white. Fortunately in those days, fast food joints weren't just employing the lowest common denominator. The manager who was on duty when I wandered back in a daze to use the bathroom had been an EMT... So he grabbed me and held me under the big sink in the kitchen for 20 minutes to make sure the acid was washed off my face and out of my eyes.

I got out of it with a couple of cuts from the flying plastic, and a scratched cornea that healed in 2 days. Needless to say, I've been verrrrry careful with side terminals ever since.

Glad to hear you came out ok Mark!

One of the jobs I had when I was 20-21, was delivering auto parts and tires to shops.
I made a regular stop at a garage where one of the mechanics was leaning over the fender of a Chevelle, when all of a sudden I heard a noise,
(Foomp is the perfect description.) and immediately the guy was running around screaming, holding his face.
The battery had burst in his face. We got him on the ground and another guy grabbed a garden hose and started dousing him with water while we waited for the ambulance.
The memory is indelibly marked in my mind. I have thought about it every time I am working under the hood near the battery, being extremely careful were tools may fall.

I've seen that happen more than once myself. Also had a battery explode in one of my employees faces after he ran a load test on it. Scary stuff.

BrianEsser wrote:

They do make automotive batteries with three terminals, one 12V positive, one 12V negative and one 16V positive for starting only. They're usually used with high compression race motors.

Now that you mention it, I have heard of those.

My late Father had rigged up 2 batteries in his '40 Lincoln that ran on a 6 volt
system were when you hit the starter button, the 2 6 volt batteries would go into a series mode, and start the car using 12 volts.
Once you released the starter button it went back to 6 volts.

He was quite the tinkerer.

Right on, Dale - the classic series/parallel switch...

We had one on our '49 Coupe Deville. It was the first year of the 'high-compression' Kettering V8, and the car also had hydraulic power windows & seat, vacuum-tube radio, etc. so it was easy to run out of volts to start the mill.

Basically it was just a Ford starter solenoid, but eventually they started mounting them to 12-Volt batteries that were divided down the middle so you had 2 sets of 3 cells and could do the job with a single unit. According to Brian, I guess they now do the same thing with 8-cell batteries and divide them between 6 cells and 2 extras...

Here is one of them.



http://www.jegs.com/p/Kinetik-Racing/Kinetik-Racing-12-16-Volt-AGM-Batteries/1128848/10002/-1

Quote :

In addition to 12V models, there's a 16V/12V combo with a 3-post dual output to eliminate the need for a 12V step-down converter.

AA wrote:

Jee-e-e-z, you guys have some hardcore battery stories. My most painful experience was when I was about 20. Working on my '76 Dodge, wearing a stainless steel Seiko watch. Somehow I managed to reach my hand between the posi post and frame and then some big sparks...

Cool...

That was the reason, along with moving belts and pulleys, that my dad always wore stretch-type watch-bands... for quick escape.