Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement

robotennis61 wrote:

I'm a little sketchy on the motor repair. is the window motor like an alternator,that you have to replace brushes or some such?

It is a DC Motor. Yes, it has brushes and an armature, etc like a small DC Generator.
You could find brushes to replace and possibly refurbish the unit. The only problem with that is by the time you got done testing it completely after it has been operating for 10 or more years, you will most likely find many other parts inside worn to their limits as well and would conclude that it is cheaper to just replace the whole motor assembly.
If you had an accumulation of a bunch of these motors, used, you could probably refurbish some of them by mix and matching and just buying some new brushes and bearings, but would it be worth it in the long run. I say no, just replace the unit with new not refurbed.

interesting

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down.

I disagree with the folks who say you can't replace the motor only, as you have obviously already found...

My first instinct was that your counter-balance spring was mis-set, except that you said that they window originially was slow going both down AND up... I vote for breaking out the manual and giving it the whole, annoying frameless-window adjustment process.

robotennis61 wrote:

I'm a little sketchy on the motor repair. is the window motor like an alternator,that you have to replace brushes or some such?

The window motor has brushes, but in every window motor failure I've seen it's just that the magnets come unglued from the can.

I was told that when the brushes were riveted in place the magnets did not work loose unless the rivet was not done right in the first place.

They could get rid of the problem by stamping dimples in the cans that the magnets would slide behind or making a little plastic frame that would fit in the can to hold them in place. Either would add manufacturing steps and require equipment and tooling $$ costing more than the glue. Given the glued magnets last so long that'd likely be a tough discussion for many if not most component makers trying to meet any competitive cost targets. Given current knowledge of mettalurgy and chemistry I bet that someone is cheaping out on one or more of the glue, the can, or the manufacturing process (probably the cleaning). Given how long the glue holds (usually in the range of a 10-year 150,000 mile engineering target) I bet it would be tough to get someone to care. Call it 'engineering tradeoffs.' I bet that for some other makes/models of car you might get a better design.

Albertj

Eldo wrote:

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down.

I disagree with the folks who say you can't replace the motor only, as you have obviously already found...

My first instinct was that your counter-balance spring was mis-set, except that you said that they window originially was slow going both down AND up... I vote for breaking out the manual and giving it the whole, annoying frameless-window adjustment process.

I will have to look in the manual and look it over. I don't have the manual next to me, but can you adjust the counter-balance spring?

Here are the window adjustments.....hope it helps.

Thanks Scott, that helps a lot!

I moved a few posts below from the alternator thread. I haven't had much time to check out the problem with the window motor. Just trying to get some more ideas before I have the door apart.

98riv wrote:

I ended up getting a new battery and so far everything seems to be back to normal. I still have to figure out why the window motor on the passenger side is so slow, but that will have to wait until it gets warmer out.

Window is driven by a DC motor. DC motor speed depends on having adequate current to work at all and supply voltage above a threshold. Any given DC motor is/can be rated for a certain RPM at a certain voltage and current. It may turn at 2/3 or 1/2 or less the rated voltage, but will turn slower than if at the rated voltage provided enough current. It will not turn if provided the rated voltage at inadequate current. The higher the voltage the faster it will turn up to a limit (burnout/failure).

So if your motor is running slower than it used to it has in internal problem, or an external wiring problem, that is cuttting voltage. It could be that your battery's run down due to age - or due to a problem in that motor or elsewhere.

If I were you and I had a little time on my hands, I'd check the witing to the motor. If the wiring looked/tested OK I'd replace the motor, and I'd try to get an OE motor (the OE motors were pretty quick). A motor and regulator from a donor junkyard Riv might be easiest; that failing (or undesirable for some reason), a replacement rebuilt might be. There's a writeup somewheres on this site detailing window motor replacement.

Albertj

Could a bad regulator also cause something like this?

Did you do all the stuff RickW recommended back on November 19th?

My driver-side window gets slow at times. The bushing in the center of the "X-beam" is blown out and hangs up sometimes. Problem is, you can't buy the door internals anymore (I've checked). Still haven't found a good one at a yard. I'm gonna have to figure out a way to repair it.

albertj wrote:

Did you do all the stuff RickW recommended back on November 19th?

Not yet, just trying to get some more ideas before I have time to do some troubleshooting.

Abaddon wrote:

My driver-side window gets slow at times. The bushing in the center of the "X-beam" is blown out and hangs up sometimes. Problem is, you can't buy the door internals anymore (I've checked). Still haven't found a good one at a yard. I'm gonna have to figure out a way to repair it.

If you can get at your bearing to measure it, chances are you can find a replacement here.

Hmmm. Thanks for the link. If I ever get around to it, I'll fix it....lol

are the power window motors interchangeable from one side to the other?

I updated the links for the pictures in the write up. Let me know if anyone has any problem viewing them.

Finally had time to inspect the passenger side window and found a bunch of old very sticky grease behind the big gear that attaches to the window motor. I tried to clean it as best I could without removing the window and it seems to be working better. Would have liked to remove the window and track from the door, but wasn't sure what kind of job that would be.

I read through this write-up a bit and didn't find the exact problem that I have, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. Anyyywwaaayyyyy....

Since like, late summer, my drivers window has been doing this thing where it will roll down about halfway, then it will make a loud, grindy, clicky noise and not go down any further, but if I push on the top of the window with my hand, it will go down the rest of the way. The same thing happens coming up, but the window doesn't close ALL the way. It goes up enough where the inside of the car won't get wet when it rains, but it will whistle if I go over 50 mph or so.

The window goes up and down at a normal speed other than that.

The only window regulator I ever replaced was one of the cable-driven ones, so I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

I read through this write-up a bit and didn't find the exact problem that I have, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. Anyyywwaaayyyyy....

Since like, late summer, my drivers window has been doing this thing where it will roll down about halfway, then it will make a loud, grindy, clicky noise and not go down any further, but if I push on the top of the window with my hand, it will go down the rest of the way. The same thing happens coming up, but the window doesn't close ALL the way. It goes up enough where the inside of the car won't get wet when it rains, but it will whistle if I go over 50 mph or so.

The window goes up and down at a normal speed other than that.

The only window regulator I ever replaced was one of the cable-driven ones, so I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Does your window "wobble" when it's about half way down? Has it been rattling in the door when halfway or partway down? Our windows sit on a giant "X" frame, with a single stud in the center of it as a pivot point. That stud wears out, and eventually will throw the whole thing out of time/alignment. I assume that when you push up/out on the window, you temporarily re-align everything and the window is able to finish its cycle downward.
It's the mechanism itself that goes bad. It isn't available anymore, and is a giant PITA to try and fix/replace.

Abaddon wrote:

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

I read through this write-up a bit and didn't find the exact problem that I have, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. Anyyywwaaayyyyy....

Since like, late summer, my drivers window has been doing this thing where it will roll down about halfway, then it will make a loud, grindy, clicky noise and not go down any further, but if I push on the top of the window with my hand, it will go down the rest of the way. The same thing happens coming up, but the window doesn't close ALL the way. It goes up enough where the inside of the car won't get wet when it rains, but it will whistle if I go over 50 mph or so.

The window goes up and down at a normal speed other than that.

The only window regulator I ever replaced was one of the cable-driven ones, so I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Does your window "wobble" when it's about half way down? Has it been rattling in the door when halfway or partway down? Our windows sit on a giant "X" frame, with a single stud in the center of it as a pivot point. That stud wears out, and eventually will throw the whole thing out of time/alignment. I assume that when you push up/out on the window, you temporarily re-align everything and the window is able to finish its cycle downward.
It's the mechanism itself that goes bad. It isn't available anymore, and is a giant PITA to try and fix/replace.

Thanks Scott, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

Yeah, it kind of wobbles back and forth. So to fix this, I would have to replace the entire "x" frame scissor jack thing? And that's going to totally suck?

Abaddon wrote:

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

I read through this write-up a bit and didn't find the exact problem that I have, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. Anyyywwaaayyyyy....

Since like, late summer, my drivers window has been doing this thing where it will roll down about halfway, then it will make a loud, grindy, clicky noise and not go down any further, but if I push on the top of the window with my hand, it will go down the rest of the way. The same thing happens coming up, but the window doesn't close ALL the way. It goes up enough where the inside of the car won't get wet when it rains, but it will whistle if I go over 50 mph or so.

The window goes up and down at a normal speed other than that.

The only window regulator I ever replaced was one of the cable-driven ones, so I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Does your window "wobble" when it's about half way down? Has it been rattling in the door when halfway or partway down? Our windows sit on a giant "X" frame, with a single stud in the center of it as a pivot point. That stud wears out, and eventually will throw the whole thing out of time/alignment. I assume that when you push up/out on the window, you temporarily re-align everything and the window is able to finish its cycle downward.
It's the mechanism itself that goes bad. It isn't available anymore, and is a giant PITA to try and fix/replace.

Thanks Scott, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

Yeah, it kind of wobbles back and forth. So to fix this, I would have to replace the entire "x" frame scissor jack thing? And that's going to totally suck?

Abaddon wrote:

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

I read through this write-up a bit and didn't find the exact problem that I have, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. Anyyywwaaayyyyy....

Since like, late summer, my drivers window has been doing this thing where it will roll down about halfway, then it will make a loud, grindy, clicky noise and not go down any further, but if I push on the top of the window with my hand, it will go down the rest of the way. The same thing happens coming up, but the window doesn't close ALL the way. It goes up enough where the inside of the car won't get wet when it rains, but it will whistle if I go over 50 mph or so.

The window goes up and down at a normal speed other than that.

The only window regulator I ever replaced was one of the cable-driven ones, so I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Does your window "wobble" when it's about half way down? Has it been rattling in the door when halfway or partway down? Our windows sit on a giant "X" frame, with a single stud in the center of it as a pivot point. That stud wears out, and eventually will throw the whole thing out of time/alignment. I assume that when you push up/out on the window, you temporarily re-align everything and the window is able to finish its cycle downward.
It's the mechanism itself that goes bad. It isn't available anymore, and is a giant PITA to try and fix/replace.

Thanks Scott, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

Yeah, it kind of wobbles back and forth. So to fix this, I would have to replace the entire "x" frame scissor jack thing? And that's going to totally suck?

Yes, it sucks. It's the entire length of the window. You might be able to get away with fabricating some sort of bolt/bearing device for the center piece. I've never tried repairing mine because it still works without any issues up or down. It's just that at certain points, it rattle like mad. All I do is roll it down or up 1/2", and it stops.

Best thing to do is get the door panel off and have a physical look at what's going on in there.

FYI....you posted 3 times lol.