Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys

albertj wrote:

BMD wrote:

Jayrydingslab wrote:

Man my s/c idelier pully just blew up on me one belt is gone and the acc belt is about to go ? can i start the car with out the s/c hooked up and what will happen to the car if i drive it without the s/c idelier pully is not on man i wish one of u guys lived in MD

This just happened to my dad, and in his case the pulley seized. But whats weird is that I couldn't find any evidence of the exploded plastic pulley parts?

Confession:

I've lost the SC idler pulley and the acc idler pulley the same way. Which taught me this general observation:

Do not ignore squeaks under the hood.

Even if you decide to delay repair, at least ascertain the cause.

Albertj

TRUTH.

Friend of mine has a 99' Regal GS. Called me complaining about a squeak and funny grinding noise under the hood. I told him to check pulleys. He was too lazy and said noise went away. Literally a week later he said the car wasn't making boost and he lost the belt. All that was left on the SC tensioner was the hub/nub of the old plastic pulley. The pulley shot off to between the engine compartment and the back of the headlight housing. It was fun prying the old bearing off the tensioner... haha

To anyone who has cut their spacer in half, what did you use to cut it? And were you able to cut it evenly in half?

I'd think a hacksaw would do it.

AA wrote:

I'd think a hacksaw would do it.

Yeah, I'm sure a hack saw would do it. I'm just concerned about cutting it straight, so that the 2 halves fit together without aligning. I wonder if a machine shop could cut it perfectly? Has anyone measured the spacer?

Below is the proceedure I located direct from AllDataPro to replace my idler pulley which is making some noise - moderator please put this where it needs to be - THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT If anyone has replaced the idler pulley please post a write up. Thanks!

Drive Belt Idler Pulley Replacement

REMOVAL PROCEDURE

J 28467-360 Engine Support Fixture
J 28467-94 Engine Support Fixture Adapter
J 28467-330 Engine Support Fixture Adapter
J28467-350 Engine Support Fixture Adapter

Raise the vehicle. Suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Vehicle Lifting.
Remove the front lower splash shield.
Drain the coolant. Refer to Draining and Filling the Coolant System in Cooling System.
Close the radiator drain cock. Install the front splash shield.
Lower the vehicle.
Install the J 28467-360 to the engine.
Remove the supercharger belt. Refer to Drive Belt Replacement (VIN 1).
Remove the ignition module.
Remove the supercharger belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Replacement (VIN 1).
Remove the accessory drive belt. Refer to Drive Belt Replacement (VIN 1).
Remove the torque axis engine mount. Refer to Engine Mount Replacement.
Remove the power steering pump. Set the pump aside. Refer to Power Steering Pump Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the engine mount bracket. Refer to Engine Mount Bracket Replacement.
Remove the idler pulley/bracket bolts.
Remove the idler pulley/bracket.
INSTALLATION PROCEDURE

Install the idler pulley/bracket.
Install the idler pulley/bracket bolts.
Tighten the bolts to 50 Nm (37 ft. lbs.) .
NOTICE: Refer to Fastener Notice in Service Precautions.

Install the engine mount bracket. Refer to Engine Mount Bracket Replacement.
Install the power steering pump. Refer to Power Steering Pump Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Install the torque axis engine mount. Refer to Engine Mount Replacement.
Install the accessory drive belt. Refer to Drive Belt Replacement (VIN 1).
Install the supercharger belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Replacement (VIN I -Supercharger).
Install the ignition module.
Install the supercharger belt. Refer to Drive Belt Replacement (VIN 1).
Remove the engine support fixture.
Refill the coolant. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling System in Cooling System.

which pulley? This sounds like the procedure for the pulley stuck behind the engine mount, in which case it's a relatively accurate procedure, although I don't think you need to drain the coolant. I didn't. For the other pullies you don't need to remove the front engine mount.

Yep, thats the procedure for that pulley behind the mount.....

ugh............thanks! How about preferences for Gatorback vs other's...I have researched and seem to think gatorback is best bet also a friend of mine said he has a 3.06" dia pulley??? what would this do for me i have seen many others and was considering a 3.4 from ZZP prior to hearing this may be available?

BKRIV wrote:

ugh............thanks! How about preferences for Gatorback vs other's...I have researched and seem to think gatorback is best bet also a friend of mine said he has a 3.06" dia pulley??? what would this do for me i have seen many others and was considering a 3.4 from ZZP prior to hearing this may be available?

Gatorback's are good belts. Don't run a supercharger pulley smaller than stock without the supporting modifications. It takes a lot of supporting mods to be able to run smaller than a 3.4. Here are some threads that you need to check out:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t23-faq-modding-101-how-to-increase-acceleration-performance

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t28-faq-what-is-spark-knock-what-is-kr-knock-retard

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t3656-faq-smaller-sc-pulley-what-size

Quote :

How about preferences for Gatorback vs other's...I have researched and seem to think gatorback is best

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t607-faq-serpentine-belts-brands-and-types

My belts were looking pretty rough so i decided to change them. You probably know you have to take the motor.mount loose and remove the cast iron braket that attatches it to the motor. The epic part of the story is the bottom most stud had the star end broken off, so i couldnt remove the bracket. I coukd leave gaps to move the belts in and around it. But i forgot the routing and was away from my computer (oh no!!). Well i had to figure out the routing on top of figuring out how to manuever the belt around that bracket. It took me 10 hours plus three re-assemblies to get the belts on. Thought yoi guys might think thatwas funny.

If you do get a replacement stud, you can get the old stud out by locking two nuts together, if there are enough threads left. Another trick for that lower stud is to cut the spacer in half (once you do get it out) before you reassemble so in the future you don't have to lower the engine to get the spacer out of the way.

The Series I 3800 (and many other series II 3800s) have the easiest belts ever to change. I can't imagine what the engineers were thinking when they put together the design for that front motor mount. I too was horrified the first time I changed the belt.

Well, mine is a 3800 series II and it would have been a 30 minute job tops. But with that lower stud like that it was a huge pain. I didn't think of locking the two nutz together to get a grip, but thanks for the advice. there is plenty of room for that.

dtrumbo wrote:

Well, mine is a 3800 series II and it would have been a 30 minute job tops. But with that lower stud like that it was a huge pain. I didn't think of locking the two nutz together to get a grip, but thanks for the advice. there is plenty of room for that.

For the rest of you reading this - there was a "running change" on the S-II 3800 engine front motor mount, the lower right mount standoff was replaced by a bolt and ferrule. What you do is support the engine (NOT THE OIL PAN!), you don't have to jack it up just hold it steady - then remove that bolt, slip it out of the mount and the ferrule can then be removed. You may need to move the engine a little to let the ferrule drop out. THEN the belts can be taken out and put on through that gap.

On many if not most 97 (it was a running change not a MY change) and later there is a ferrule in the mount - take off the pass side wheel and the inner fender, then just look at the engine - it is the lower right hand bolt. Clean the grease off the area then remove the bolt. Anyway with that bolt out you can get the SC belt off/on no problem.jack

Here is the problem - it actually is pretty easy to mess up the OP gasket by jacking the engine at the pan. What happens is the gasket can crush a bit, depending on composition, then will leak when the weight's off.

If you want to try hoisting I have heard of this but not done it - use a sawhorse set and some 2x4s to make a frame you can set over the engine (resting on the car's frame) and use a come-along with chain on the end to hoist the engine. I was told that this worked since you are not removing the engine, just holding the weight still while messing with one of the mounts. I kind of think the guy (a sprint car racer where I used to work) was pulling my leg but it seems plausible. Again - I have not done this.

Anyway - If you look around long enough under the engine you should find a boss or other point to put a block of wood and floor jack under to accomplish the same thing as the make-do 2x4 hoist. The idea is just to hold the engine in place so there's no torque on the ferrule.

Albertj

On my car there was NOT enough room to get the stud out far enough to remove the ferrule/spacer without lowering the engine a significant amount (3-4 inches maybe). That required using an engine hoist for all the raising/lowering. I did jack a 3800 for this once and ruined the oil pan gasket on an N/A Park Ave (same setup). So Don't Do That.

Also I was referring to the ferrule when I said spacer. Cut it in half while it's out.

I don't see how you would have enough room for anything 2x4 plus a come-along above the engine, unless you are building a giant tripod/cube above the car. I have used a jack with a block of wood on the harmonic balancer, it mostly works but you have to keep a really close eye on the wood being out of the way, making sure you are NOT on the oil pan, making sure the jack isn't moving forward/backward while you are jacking up and down, etc. A bottle jack would probably work better than a standard floor jack for these reasons.

When i supported the motor i out the pressure.on the bolts to the oil pan. That way it doesnt add any pressure to the gasket. I do not have any leaks and i even lowered the bidy while the engine was supported to give a big enough gap to move the belts around. (just because of the broken stud)

is there any way,...the pics can be put back up??? i kno im years late...lol..

I have the pics, but it may be a while until I can find them and re-post. I'll try when I have some time.

THANKS BRO..IM ACTUALLY TRYING TO REPLACE ANY REPLACEABLE PULLEY THAT I CAN ..I JUST DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT IM LOOKING FOR..I NEED HELP LOL.. TRYING TO ELIMINATE A SCREECHING NOISE COMING FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE BELT AREA ..ITS GETTIN ON MY NERVES BADDD

Could be the clutch on the a/c.

THE CLUTCH WHAT?? .. IT MKES THE NOISE WHETHER THE AC IS ON OR OFF.

Could be the alternator bearings are shot. Get a piece of garden hose and use it like a stethoscope to pinpoint the source. Or get a stethoscope...

dboydakid wrote:

THE CLUTCH WHAT?? .. IT MKES THE NOISE WHETHER THE AC IS ON OR OFF.

It making the noise whether it is on or off is irrelavent as the cluth on the air conditioner pump can slip wheter it is engaged or not. But the post above me it right. That would be the best method.

dboydakid wrote:

is there any way,...the pics can be put back up??? i kno im years late...lol..

PM me and I'll send you the pics. I've meant to put these back up myself for ages, but the comic comes first, and it's a brutal time consumer.

DEEKSTER CADDY- THNX..BUT IM ON MY 3RD ALTERNATOR..FOR THAT REASON..BUT THIS NOISE IS NOT THAT...
AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS THE TENSIONER..SO I REPLACED THAT..THEN THE NOISE CAME BACK..DID THAT TWICE SMH...THEN I THOUGHT MAYBE ITS THE TENSIONER PULLEY..WASNT THAT..

SO MAYBE (DTRUMBO) IS RIGHT.. BUT IS THAT A EASY FIX? ONE THAT A REGULAR MECHANIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE?
IVE HEARD AND WITNESSED THAT NOT EVERY MECHANIC CAN WORK ON A 3800 SERIES..ESPECIALLY RIVIERAS.SMH