| Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now | |
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+6AA deekster_caddy Abaddon Karma L67 mrod7510 10 posters |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:39 pm | |
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Last edited by mrod7510 on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05 Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 pm | |
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Karma Aficionado
Name : Andrew Age : 40 Location : Ontario, Canada Joined : 2008-01-14 Post Count : 1949 Merit : 123
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:56 pm | |
| The nitrous acts as a charge cooler and combustible, but yeah... might want something to help get things out of the engine again...
and, I see no pics? _________________ | |
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L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05 Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:07 pm | |
| - Karma wrote:
- The nitrous acts as a charge cooler and combustible, but yeah... might want something to help get things out of the engine again...
and, I see no pics? Right, I cant imagine he's on the funny gas 100% of the time though.... | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:19 pm | |
| Your right I need headers | |
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L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05 Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:24 pm | |
| - mrod7510 wrote:
- Your right I need headers
SSACs are only 350 shipped....DO IT! http://www.ssautochrome.com/level.itml/icOid/1886 | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:14 am | |
| Looks good. Will test and monitor my tune tomorrow on the freeway to work:) | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:41 am | |
| Yeah dude. You aren't going to run a 3.1" pulley. It just isn't gonna happen. You have quite a few more mods left to go before you even get down to a 3.3".
Pics aren't showing btw. | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:45 am | |
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L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05 Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:53 am | |
| - mrod7510 wrote:
- So what will happen?
Chipped piston, or you'll get lucky and just be very slow running very low timing if your PCM can keep up with the knock or switch to the bad fuel spark table. | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:06 am | |
| Your engine will produce excessive knock under a load, which may result in holes in the tops of the pistons. Judging by your mods listed in your sig, I'll bet you have spikes of about 8* or better of KR, WOT in the upper RPM band right now. You at least need AL104 plugs with a smaller gap and headers with your current setup to get the KR down.
I'm maxed out right now with my pulley size (3.25"). I need a Cam and/or an Intercooler (in addition to the mods already done) if I want to run a smaller pulley. I got the KR tuned down to about 4* at WOT @ 5500rpms now. I can't tune out any more without more mods. | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:13 am | |
| I drove it this morning and it feels stronger, I won't be able to put the wide band on it till after work, I did not hear any pinging? For what that's worth. I do have 104's gap @.030 for the Nitrous. Yes I need headers and I'll pick up a set soon. I figured that if I were really restricted on the exhaust side my boost would be higher. It's about 11lbs by the gauge, 1/2 a lbs less than before the ported blower throttle body and 3.1? | |
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deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31 Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:30 am | |
| You are running a 3.1 pulley with no exhaust or vavletrain mods? You will chip a piston or blow a hole right through one. Stay away from heavy throttle completely. Even mid throttle with slight boost will be more than you bargained for. Do you have a scanner so you can see KR? Have you de-tuned, i.e. removed timing so you lessen your risk of piston damage? I say again, running a 3.1 piston with no valvetrain mods is going to pop a piston. | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:32 am | |
| - mrod7510 wrote:
- I drove it this morning and it feels stronger, I won't be able to put the wide band on it till after work, I did not hear any pinging? For what that's worth. I do have 104's gap @.030 for the Nitrous. Yes I need headers and I'll pick up a set soon. I figured that if I were really restricted on the exhaust side my boost would be higher. It's about 11lbs by the gauge, 1/2 a lbs less than before the ported blower throttle body and 3.1?
You may not hear it, but trust me (us), it's there. The PCM will compensate for up to 15* KR (as far as I've seen). It will retard the timing as soon as hears knock, which is faster than you will ever hear it. I didn't think I had that much KR either (at first). I didn't see it all until the scan/tune. I had 0* KR until around 5000rpms. At that point, it slowly crept upward to almost 10* at the shift point. You may not notice it because the car gradually loses HP up to that point. It took quite a bit of tuning to get it (mine) where it's at now. I read that you're waiting for a "tune" from someone. A generic tune set up on a comp isn't going to help you completely. You should have it scanned, and then tuned to what your engine needs. Also, the stock exhaust manifolds on this engine suck, and are a huge choking point. The front manifold has smaller primaries than the rear. This can result in the front bank of pistons failing on you under excessive boost i.e. they work harder than the rear. The more air you put in, the more air needs to come out. Now that I think of it, I should take a pic with my mic to show you. I have my stock manifolds in a box here at work. The headers were an awesome investment. They're fairly easy to install IMO, with only a few modifications to fit the Riv. I'm a little on the crazier side than most of us on this site, but even I think a 3.1" pulley on your current setup is destined for disaster....... | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:06 pm | |
| I have cut the cat off and yes I my tuner pulled timing up high, I am learning the tuning so to make changes myself. Headers are next! Why do you guys think I lost boost? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:29 pm | |
| Guys, let's not forget N2O is a liquid intercooler in addition to being a liquid form of forced induction. The reason N2O works at all is because it chills the cylinders, keeping knock under control, even with extreme cylinder pressures - this assumes you are commanding the correct amount of fuel. So we may well be able to support a small shot of N2O in addition to the blower, but... the 3.1" pulley could cause another problem: fueling.
Can the fueling keep up? As mentioned by L67, stock injectors are pushed to their limits below a 3.2" pulley size. Now you introduce N2O (basically a 2nd supercharger). I'm not sure there's any way to deliver enough fuel for the amount of power this set-up can make. Talk to anyone who knows anything about using the bottle - they know the most important rule is to deliver the right amount of fuel to match all of that O2. If you can't get the A/F right, it's only a short period of time before things go "boom".
Get a scanner hooked up and see what's going on. It's an easy way to see what level of KR you have. Even if it was knock free, I would scan periodically to be sure things stay correct. If just one time something goes wrong with fuel delivery, it's all over. I would probably have an AeroForce gauge in my car before I tried doing something like this.
Last thing, you may want to back off the timing a couple degrees using a tuner. Just some insurance to protect against detonation. You can run a 3.1" all day long if you don't go WOT with it. It won't knock until the load increases. At that point, the N2O comes in and kills the knock, adds power. It might work. The thing I'd watch is those times you aren't at WOT but still under load (going uphill in OD). Need to tune timing to deal with that. And if you ever run the 3.1" WOT without N2O, it won't be good. _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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DEMonte1997 Aficionado
Name : Rick Age : 46 Location : CT Joined : 2009-03-03 Post Count : 1429 Merit : 37
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:08 pm | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:23 pm | |
| Yeah, air fuel with nitrous before my resent mods on the dyno were 10 o's or fat, I choose to keep it there with the jetting 25/41 nos jets for now. I'm eager to see the numbers now without nos and current mods, anyone have a tunercat tune on kill I can look at and compare to what my tuner has done ? | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:26 pm | |
| My pictures won't show up on my iPhone for some reason,need computer only to see them in the post . If not let me know I'll send them to ya | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:44 pm | |
| None of the pics show up. We can't see them either....... | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:52 pm | |
| The URLs you posted are not image links, they're links to a gmail-only area. _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:30 pm | |
| I'll fix tonight sorry.. Lame | |
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mrod7510 Member
Joined : 2008-08-18 Post Count : 59 Merit : 1
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:05 pm | |
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turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:13 pm | |
| - AA wrote:
- Can the fueling keep up? As mentioned by L67, stock injectors are pushed to their limits below a 3.2" pulley size. Now you introduce N2O (basically a 2nd supercharger). I'm not sure there's any way to deliver enough fuel for the amount of power this set-up can make. Talk to anyone who knows anything about using the bottle - they know the most important rule is to deliver the right amount of fuel to match all of that O2. If you can't get the A/F right, it's only a short period of time before things go "boom".
It looks like it's a wet shot so fueling should be ok provided nitrous on and set up right. That is assuming the fueling without the nitrous is on track with that pulley. I've heard over and over that a wet shot is bad for the supercharger rotor coating but those are cheaper to replace than pistons. | |
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98riv Moderator
Location : USA Joined : 2007-01-14 Post Count : 995 Merit : 30
| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:39 pm | |
| How did you plug up the silencer ports on the outlet of the blower? It is hard to tell from the pictures, but the plugs look like they are not in there very secure. _________________ 1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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| Subject: Re: Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now | |
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| Ported Blower Photos and Stuff 1996 Riv PIC WORK now | |
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