Transmission Trouble, Slipping?? (Series I SC)

yea there is a ses light on. just talked to the guy that scanned my car and it a tranny range sensor. that would explain why i would lose OD drive..the tranny is not sure what gear its in right?

wow i kind of feel like a dumb ass, just found out the neutral safety switch is also the range sensor..so now can replace that and hopefully fix my tranny problems

95rivy wrote:

wow i kind of feel like a dumb ass, just found out the neutral safety switch is also the range sensor..so now can replace that and hopefully fix my tranny problems

my trans has the same problem. It was a fresh rebuilt trans. I got codes for the range switch.

I changed the range switch, numerous times, with numerous replacements. Finally put on a brand new one. Damn thing still wont go into 4th, its not in "limp" mode because the line pressure isn't maxing out, and when you put the shifter into 3rd it does jerk a little like its dropping a gear which I believe is 3 w/ tcc lockup going into 3rd w/o tcc lockup.

I have yet to find a solution. No one on any board has any answers. I gotta switch cases on my trans so Im gonna see if a new trans guy can figure out if the last trans guy just fucked something up and thats why I dont have fourth.

I personally think that the range switch has absolutely nothing to do with 4th gear. if all else fails, the trans will still run on a mechanical level.

dreww wrote:

95rivy wrote:

wow i kind of feel like a dumb ass, just found out the neutral safety switch is also the range sensor..so now can replace that and hopefully fix my tranny problems

my trans has the same problem. It was a fresh rebuilt trans. I got codes for the range switch.

I changed the range switch, numerous times, with numerous replacements. Finally put on a brand new one. Damn thing still wont go into 4th, its not in "limp" mode because the line pressure isn't maxing out, and when you put the shifter into 3rd it does jerk a little like its dropping a gear which I believe is 3 w/ tcc lockup going into 3rd w/o tcc lockup.

I have yet to find a solution. No one on any board has any answers. I gotta switch cases on my trans so Im gonna see if a new trans guy can figure out if the last trans guy just fucked something up and thats why I dont have fourth.

I personally think that the range switch has absolutely nothing to do with 4th gear. if all else fails, the trans will still run on a mechanical level.

Had anyone tried reflashing the PCM?

Albertj

Dreww....

if numerous parts haven't fixed it, did you decide to test all the wires? or just keep throwing more switches at it? Have you checked the Vehicle Speed Sensor on the trans?
What code(s) did you have....P0705 or P0706? Was P0502 also present?

If you seriously want to figure this out, and have the mechanical and electrical knowledge to do so, I will help you. I need as much info as possible......

Curt, good luck.

Abaddon wrote:

Dreww....

if numerous parts haven't fixed it, did you decide to test all the wires? or just keep throwing more switches at it? Have you checked the Vehicle Speed Sensor on the trans?
What code(s) did you have....P0705 or P0706? Was P0502 also present?

If you seriously want to figure this out, and have the mechanical and electrical knowledge to do so, I will help you. I need as much info as possible......

Curt, good luck.

i'll try to give you the info i can. the car is on stands in the garage with trans on ground.
i think i was getting both 705 and 706. triple checked the wiring on range switch according to wiring diagram.. whats code 502? dont think i got that. never got a code for VSS.

P0502 is a code for the VSS. A P0705 can set a false P0502. That's why I asked. Again, Lemme know what all you've checked, and I'll do my best to provide every piece of info I can gather for you.

Abaddon wrote:

P0502 is a code for the VSS. A P0705 can set a false P0502. That's why I asked. Again, Lemme know what all you've checked, and I'll do my best to provide every piece of info I can gather for you.

ok, let me ask you this....what problems would a 502 VSS code trigger?

There are 2 harnesses on the range switch. I've only messed with the 4 wire one. The other harness - well all I really know is that if you unplug it the car wont start at all. Im guessing at least one of those wires has to do with the range switch P,N locator so it will start.

My shift display on the dash doesnt work 100% right. So I know something is not 100% correct with the range switch wiring. But I dunno where to start. The dash display will show P, 2, and maybe R (I cant remember), but it wont show 1, 3 and I can get it to show OD but I gotta shift it to 3rd then back to OD. Either way it doesnt command 4th.

Let me know any other info you need. Im not really sure what you're looking for.

as for function, the trans works well except for OD. I put it in P, its in park. I put it in R, its in reverse, I put it in 1 its in 1st, etc. But the dash shift display will usually on show P if in park and 2 if in any other position. Occasionally it will start flashing and stop intermittingly

what is the "modified TCC solenoid" in your signature? My friend (mechanic) thinks its a bad "4th gear solenoid". I told him there is no 4th gear solenoid on the wiring diagrams. he said "well some type of solenoid will command a shift from 3rd to 4th". Do you know what solenoid that is?

here is the link to my nightmare journey https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t6334-write-up-4t80e-transmission-install

dreww when your were driving the car last would you have OD some of the time or just not at all? The problem i have with mine is that when i get up to highway speed it will shift out of OD after about a min or so and be in third gear. Then i pull of the road, turn the car off for 30 seconds then get back up to speed and have OD for the hole time im driving. I can even stop at a store or something and still have the OD. I seem to lose it again if ti sits for to long and everything cools down, It almost sounds like the something is being reset when i shut the car off and then back on.

95rivy wrote:

dreww when your were driving the car last would you have OD some of the time or just not at all? The problem i have with mine is that when i get up to highway speed it will shift out of OD after about a min or so and be in third gear. Then i pull of the road, turn the car off for 30 seconds then get back up to speed and have OD for the hole time im driving. I can even stop at a store or something and still have the OD. I seem to lose it again if ti sits for to long and everything cools down, It almost sounds like the something is being reset when i shut the car off and then back on.

your car sounds like its going into "limp" mode. The best way to know that for sure if when the pressure maxes out and you get a pressure control solenoid engine light code.

but since you have a vacuum controlled trans, you dont have that solenoid and wont get that error code. But if pressure is maxed, the car will "clunk" into gear when you go from park to reverse, or park to drive, or neutral to drive or reverse. It will be obvious.

I haven't had OD even one time since I put in this rebuilt trans. I was originally going into limp since the pressure control solenoid was showing in error....I fixed that by correcting some wiring and still never had OD once. That makes me believe its a mechanical (trans shop) error.

dreww,

Do you still have access to that "good" scanner? This scan tool needs to be able to display TR PABC data, or least be able to tell you what gear it's in.....If so, I will post the flow chart for P0705 for you. We need to see if the PCM is receiving the proper data or not.

Abaddon wrote:

dreww,

Do you still have access to that "good" scanner? This scan tool needs to be able to display TR PABC data, or least be able to tell you what gear it's in.....If so, I will post the flow chart for P0705 for you. We need to see if the PCM is receiving the proper data or not.

yes i have my dhp still. i already scanned and it never showed past third. so the pcm isnt commanding 4th for whatever reason.

Dreww, I do have that "clunk" when i put it in gear from park. It really only does it when everything is cold and it also shifts hard from 1st to 2nd. but 2nd to 3rd seems ok. After driving for 5-10 min. its doesnt shift so hard. but it still shifts hard from park to reverse, just not as bad as when its cold.

95rivy wrote:

Dreww, I do have that "clunk" when i put it in gear from park. It really only does it when everything is cold and it also shifts hard from 1st to 2nd. but 2nd to 3rd seems ok. After driving for 5-10 min. its doesnt shift so hard. but it still shifts hard from park to reverse, just not as bad as when its cold.

then you are probably in "limp" mode. Its just that your pressure control solenoid is vacuum controlled. Your problem is probably the range switch. Mine was like $40 new.

Well, now that I actually look at your sig, is this the 4T65E we're diagnosing or the original trans (4T60E)? I'll assume that if it's the 4T65E you changed the harness?

Abaddon wrote:

Well, now that I actually look at your sig, is this the 4T65E we're diagnosing or the original trans (4T60E)? I'll assume that if it's the 4T65E you changed the harness?

yes. all my steps are in the last half of my 4t80 install writeup in the series II forum

Hey guys:

Seen several 4T60-E's with the no-OD issue and in a lot of cases it's because of wear on the 4th gear clutch shaft. The splines on the end wear away and cause intermittant 4th gear, then finally no 4th at all. The 4T65-E eliminated this issue with a hardened shaft.

If you can't resolve it with an electrical fix, which unfortunately usually won't, then you'll have to go into it to repair it.

I didn't think any of the 65e's came with a hardened 4th shaft from the factory? If you drive around town in D.. it's only a matter of time before you lose TC lockup in 4th. Gotta leave it in 3 if you're doing anything less than 55mph...

DEMonte1997 wrote:

I didn't think any of the 65e's came with a hardened 4th shaft from the factory? If you drive around town in D.. it's only a matter of time before you lose TC lockup in 4th. Gotta leave it in 3 if you're doing anything less than 55mph...

many moons ago I lost TC lockup in 4th but it was something wrong with a plastic valve in the TCC solenoid circuit. Required a complete teardown to reach a part that was made of plastic to appease the bean counters and weight watchers at GM, and replace it with a billet aluminum version.

IIRC the 4T65E came with upgraded input shaft for sure. Don't recall the output shaft being a problem.

BTW all you gearheads may find the following LINK interesting.

The following may be of interest (from http://www.pontiacserver.com/ratios.html)

For the 1997 model year, GM introduce the 4T65-E.
This transmission is a heavily reworked 4T60-E design
which includes such features as a 258mm torque converter
instead of 245mm, twin chains and special sprockets for
noise, Electronic Line Pressure (ELP) for ECM control
of pump pressure to better regulate shift quality,
revised fourth clutch, revised second clutch housing,
and many other improvements to reliability. The first
applications to receive the 4T65-E will be the
SC 3800 V-6 and the DOHC 3.4L V-6 to minimize the need
for torque management. The phase in will be three
years and will be complete by model year 1999.

i do very little city driving.

I have a 95 riv s/c and it doesent move when I put it in gear also the gear indicator on the dash flashes a few times when I turn the key to on position oh and not only that it doesent start in park I have to move the shifter up and down to catch that good connection somebody help me!!!!!

riv_div wrote:

I have a 95 riv s/c and it doesent move when I put it in gear also the gear indicator on the dash flashes a few times when I turn the key to on position oh and not only that it doesent start in park I have to move the shifter up and down to catch that good connection somebody help me!!!!!

have you ever put a car on jackstands and repaired the shift gate?

Where is the shift gate???

First get a service manual (eBay) - the "shift gate" is auto slang for the various (similar) devices automakers use to make the shift lever stay where you put it. May be linear, H shaped, or whatever; yours will be linear. There will be an electrical switch near that gate. Called "neutral safety switch" - it is probably lose hence your car won't start in Park.

Thing to do is follow the service manual instructions, to re-secure or replace the neutral safety switch.

I seen that thingy it has 3 bolts on the tail of the tranny so that is what's stopping me from driving?

well i think my transmission finally crap out..I was coming home from taking my son home and got off the express way, gave it some gas to turn onto my road and about 30mph the rpms piked up and could hardly keep the car going. Thank god i only live less then a mile from the express way. Every time i tried to give it gas it would just rev up, it felt like it was slipping. I really dont need this stress right now. I sat in the driveway and almost cried, wondering how im getting to work tomorrow.