97 Rivi stalling

Birdman wrote:

I ran the car for about 2 hours tonight (in the driveway) with no issues. It got to operating temp and stayed there the whole time. I was hoping it would fail so I would have more information to pass on but no luck. I am really wondering what is going on now.

Crank sensor is normally an intermittent failure. It could go days/weeks/month or more without failing.

And if it is running right you can pretty much rule out the PCM and ICM.

We'll figure this out yet.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Crank sensor is normally an intermittent failure. It could go days/weeks/month or more without failing.

1,000,000% Seen it too many times....

Birdman wrote:

I ran the car for about 2 hours tonight (in the driveway) with no issues. It got to operating temp and stayed there the whole time. I was hoping it would fail so I would have more information to pass on but no luck. I am really wondering what is going on now.

The Crank Position Sensor could still be the issue and with your mileage and age I might consider replacing it.

But, before doing that. Have you checked all the wires leading from the the large firewall connector that feed that circuit and others. We have seen numerous cases of the wires becoming broken or intermittent due to broken wire strands inside the individual wires plastic insulation causing major headaches. This problem has popped up as the age and mileage increases on these cars also.

You may want to try moving these wires around while the engine is running and see if you can trigger a fault that would indicate a bad wire in the harness. Remove the factory tape from the large bundle and look closely at the wires that are at the top left hand side of the bundle. This is known area for wire breakage. Wiggle the wires in this area while the engine is running. If that doesn't cause a problem I would just replace the CKP Sensor.

Is this a 1997 Regal? Don't they have fuel pump resistors? The symptoms somewhat sound like that... however, I am leaning towards the crankshaft position sensor as culprit. Annoying part is it won't throw a code and the condition can be really random. :/

HTH

Yes the car is a 97. Like I said I was hoping for the car to stall to check some things out but I may go ahead and change the crank position sensor. Just to clarify, if the CKP goes bad that kills spark from the coils? I can understand why they would run power in series through different devices and just want to get this clear to myself. I am having my son call the "mechanic" that worked on the car today to find out what he tested.
I will check the wire bundle tonight.
I really appreciate all the help everyone is giving me, Thanks much!

Birdman wrote:

Yes the car is a 97. Like I said I was hoping for the car to stall to check some things out but I may go ahead and change the crank position sensor. Just to clarify, if the CKP goes bad that kills spark from the coils? I can understand why they would run power in series through different devices and just want to get this clear to myself. I am having my son call the "mechanic" that worked on the car today to find out what he tested.
I will check the wire bundle tonight.
I really appreciate all the help everyone is giving me, Thanks much!

The CKP provides the 18x reference signal to the ICM. The ICM then sends these pulses to the PCM, which then controls timing from the data. There's a lil more to it, but that's the basic of it. If the ICM loses it's 18x signal, so does the PCM, and then they have no idea where the crank is.....

Moved the wiring loom around and had no results. I am trying to find someone to change the crank position sensor now. Hopefully thats the issue because my daughter in law is going to be driving the car with my 1 year old grand son.

im gettin a similar problem.one,my HB has a healthy crack in it that runs a 1/4 way around the circumferance,and 2 ,she sorta chugs back and forth at a stop allmost as if she were gonna stall. the FP is running strong. and once i get going she runs fine.

Well Robo, that cracked HB just might be your problem......

you aint kiddin! just havta install the new one. harbour freight here i come

Just an update. After talking to my son several times I got the following information. When the car first failed to start someone sprayed starting fluid in the air cleaner hose. The car started then died (as if running out of fuel) The "mechanic" tested for spark and it had it and still would not run. I decided to try changing the fuel filter and after remving the old one you couldnt blow through it at all. I was wondering if a clogged fuel filter ( I am ASSuming this is way past clogged) would cause the pump to shut off due to pressure every once and awhile. Any thoughts?

Birdman wrote:

Just an update. After talking to my son several times I got the following information. When the car first failed to start someone sprayed starting fluid in the air cleaner hose. The car started then died (as if running out of fuel)

And then all kinds of other stuff started happening or not happening, because now you probably have residue on the mass air flow (MAF) sensor and it is not sending correct signals to the PCM. However, it is cleanable with MAF cleaner, which you can get at any decent auto parts store, pick your favorite. Then get a new MAF gasket (cheap even at the GM dealer, may be available from a NAPA) then pull and clean the MAF. You can reuse the gasket if it is not torn.

Birdman wrote:

The "mechanic" tested for spark and it had it and still would not run. I decided to try changing the fuel filter and after remving the old one you couldnt blow through it at all. I was wondering if a clogged fuel filter ( I am ASSuming this is way past clogged) would cause the pump to shut off due to pressure every once and awhile. Any thoughts?

Yes there is a pressure cutoff for the fuel pump. If filter was blocked you'd get no fuel. This however could have been tested with a pressure gauge on the Schrader valve on the fuel rail. Mechanic should have tested for that.

While you are cleaning the MAF and replacing the fuel filter, also consider pulling and cleaning the throttle body. You will likely need "security" TORX bits, I think T-15 but check first, and a replacement gasket for it (the old one could probably be reused if not torn but again they are not pricey. Also as long as you are in there, consider catching up on other deferred maintenance including checking and considering replacing the air filter.

Albertj