Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)

AA wrote:

I think there are two areas of block that could work. Use the one closest to the water pump.

Here are two pictures that I took of the area closes to the water pump.



Compressor Bracket View


I can't find a good place down on this end of the engine for a support. I guess I'll try to use the transmission spot that you posted above.

It looks like the spot I used is covered by the CPS cover. Don't remember mine extending that far. There is nothing wrong with supporting it under the balancer either. Done that many times with my 455.

LARRY70GS wrote:

It looks like the spot I used is covered by the CPS cover.  Don't remember mine extending that far.  There is nothing wrong with supporting it under the balancer either.  Done that many times with my 455.

I will try to use the location that AA posted and hopefully it won't be to far from the water pump.  If that doesn't work, do I just put a block of wood on the bottom of the balancer in the top of my first picture?

Also, do I need to put RTV on the metal gasket version?

Or, you could change out the pump without needing to remove the mount, if you modify one of the bolts for easier removal.

AA wrote:

Or, you could change out the pump without needing to remove the mount, if you modify one of the bolts for easier removal.

I need to change out the idler behind the bracket, otherwise I would give it a try.

For that gasket, I wouldn't use RTV. Looks like it includes a flexible layer that is self-sealing.

98riv wrote:

AA wrote:

I saw that when I was under there but wasn't sure if that would work. But if that works then great!

I tried using that location and it didn't work. I may either buy an engine hoist or just using a block of wood on the oil pan bolts and jack it up from there and change the oil pan gasket later if needed.

Oil pan bolts should work fine, or you can prop it from under the crank pulley as Larry suggested. The engine really isn't that heavy compared to the rest of the car. As long as you're not bearing the car's weight + supporting the engine there shouldn't be much problem.

AA wrote:

Oil pan bolts should work fine, or you can prop it from under the crank pulley as Larry suggested. The engine really isn't that heavy compared to the rest of the car. As long as you're not bearing the car's weight + supporting the engine there shouldn't be much problem.

I got it changed this afternoon. I ended up using a piece of a 2x6 and put it under three of the oil pan bolts. I forgot how much a pain in the butt it is removing the mount and the idler behind it. The new water pump looks like a better design than the oem pump.

Thanks for the excellent write up and pics on changing the water pump for the series 2 engine.
I have the GM shop manual and it was no help; made no mention of the PS pump pulley in the way.

I just completed mine (97 NA) yesterday and it only took a couple of hours and $35. I would only add a couple of tips for the next guy:

No need to raise the engine. You don't need to remove the motor mounts. I completed the whole job in relative ease from leaning over the passenger side fender. It's a little tricky to get the fourth small bolt out of the bottom of the water pump (because you can't see it) but with a little finesse, you won't have too much trouble ratcheting it out.

It is necessary to remove the PS pump. I tried everything around that, because it's a little difficult to line the holes up and put back. You can't just remove the top bolt and spin it out of the way because a stud hits the back of the PS pump pulley, so you have to take both bolts out to move it aside.

Re-use your hardware? My bolts were pretty gummy, but after a few seconds on the wire wheel they worked like new. Just be mindful to not over torque them.

The new pump that I purchased from NAPA was only $35 and was of excellent quality. It also came with a metal gasket that required no additional silicone.

She's back on the road and I was pleasantly surprised of the ease and low cost of this repair...

So I did the water pump in our '98 Riv today and took a slightly different approach to not removing the engine bracket or supercharger idler. Call me a maniac or a genius...  I cut the end of the old water pump off around the bolt with a sawzall, and then on the new water pump I cut a notch in the bolt hole just big enough to slide around the bolt. It's aluminum and cuts very, very easily! So basically, we never removed the front bottom bolt. Worthless without pics, right? So here you go!
The old and new pumps below:

A closeup of the notch in the new pump below:

And a pic of the bolt we never removed below:


It should go without saying that this eliminates any chance of a core refund, so spend the $5 extra to get the new pump instead of leaving a $5 core deposit...
Also, I had to use a long sawzall blade to get all the way down there and have a helper hold the pump still. The sawzall blade is called "THE TORCH" and I had to be careful not to damage anything else around the standoff, but it took an extra 10 minutes to do and will save even more time if the pump ever needs to be replaced again! (IF we remember that we did this...) It goes right along with cutting the spacer to make belt changes easier!

LARRY70GS wrote:

The long ones go through water, so after cleaning them, I used some teflon sealer on the shanks, and anti seize on the threads.

I'm dubious on this. I didn't see any signs of that stuff on the bolts I pulled, which are fine after 22 years. What is the teflon sealer supposed to do, protect the bolt shanks from rusting? Is it going to stay on the bolt shanks with water flowing over it? I'm concerned that it is going to wash off and collect in the radiator.

Jack the R wrote:

LARRY70GS wrote:

The long ones go through water, so after cleaning them, I used some teflon sealer on the shanks, and anti seize on the threads.

I'm dubious on this.  I didn't see any signs of that stuff on the bolts I pulled, which are fine after 22 years.  What is the teflon sealer supposed to do, protect the bolt shanks from rusting?  Is it going to stay on the bolt shanks with water flowing over it?  I'm concerned that it is going to wash off and collect in the radiator.  

It's been so long since I did the water pump Jack. Can't remember where I saw that. I know on my 70 GS, some of the bolts go through water and I think the FSM tells you to coat them in something they call "Perfect Seal" The anti seize is way more important.

There was no anti-seize on the bolts I took out. The part they bolt into (timing chain cover?) is aluminum, isn't it? Can the bolts rust into aluminum? Mine didn't rust after 22 years. They had some deposits on them, but they came out easy enough.

I did see a strip of what looked like threadlocker on my bolts, so I did put some threadlocker on. That makes more sense to me, I imagine a water pump has to have some vibration to it, and the torque setting for the bolts is pretty low. If yours haven't come out, then I suppose it's enough, and the threadlocker was just an extra bit of security.

JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.

The teflon goop is to seal any bolt that enters a water jacket. But your thread locker should do the same.

The anti-seize helps with dissimilar metal corrosion. i.e., Steel Bolt and Aluminum housing.
Again, I wouldn't take everything apart. Just continue with what your doing, fill the system and after it gets hot look everything over real good to be sure you don't have any drips or leaks from the gasket area and all the bolts.

Happy Motoring.
Rick

Yeah, might not be necessary on the 3800. I am so used to doing it with my 350 and 455's that I used the anti seize when i did the Riv. It doesn't hurt. It is absolutely necessary on the older v8's though.

Rickw wrote:

JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.
Rick

What, are you saying I won't be driving this car thirty years from now?

My Charger is nearly 50 years old, and I plan to get another 50 out of it In twenty years I'll set it up to be self-driving, and it can carry me around when I'm 90.

Jack the R wrote:

Rickw wrote:

JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.
Rick

What, are you saying I won't be driving this car thirty years from now?  

My Charger is nearly 50 years old, and I plan to get another 50 out of it  In twenty years I'll set it up to be self-driving, and it can carry me around when I'm 90.

You have a 70 Charger Jack? Can we see some pictures? What engine? My all time favorite Mopar ever since seeing Bullitt.

No, I have a 72, which is probably not your favorite

Jack the R wrote:

No, I have a 72, which is probably not your favorite  

Nothing compares to the 68-70 Charger.