Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings

Thanks Ruben,
That's a jpeg I haven't seen yet. Will be helpful.

Rick

wow wut a nightmare locating these parts gmparts direct has the inner insulator while nalley buick has the rear outer insulator. Will one work for all 6 spots or do I haft to get all the different insulators? I know the fronts are a different size. Any one have a site where I can get all these bushings and insulators in one shot ?
http://parts.nalleygmc.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=0&ukey_assembly=381137&ukey_make=1022&modelYear=1995&ukey_model=14451&ukey_driveline=0&ukey_trimLevel=0
this site lists a mishmash of stuff where as gmparts direct shows # 4 to all be the same....
http://www.gmpartsdirect.co/auto-parts/1995/buick/riviera/base-trim/3-8l-v6-gas-engine/front-suspension-cat/suspension-components-scat
this is all I have left to do other than the front and side transmission and motor mounts and replace the leaky transmission fluid cooler lines.

sloshua,

If your doing the research of where to find all these parts to rebuild the cradle, I'd appreciate it if you could post what you find out. I am also looking to do this job in the near future and would like to find all the parts needed at the best prices.

As far as tools go, I have looked at this Engine Support from HF and think I will get it from my local store. Still looking for one of their coupons, maybe a 20% off any item coupon. That would be nice. The unit only cost's $79.99, with a coupon would be more better.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=engine+support

Rick im going the route mentioned by 98riv on page 18 of course as i get the bolts out of the back and lower it down ill keep an eye on the main harness plug on the firewall so i dont damage it as I lower the cradel. I dont wanna haft to remove the whole cradle iv already been in there to replace the rear trans mount and that in its self was a major pain in the ass since I didn’t have the long extensions to get the bolts out of the rack from the top needless to say I really had to try hard to break them 2 bolts loose on the rack while under the car in that small space and I don’t wanna do it again it damn near killed me . I also hope the steering linkage will move enough to let me do this if not ill haft to get back in there and unbolt the rack. But ill post what I spend on parts and where I get them once I figure out what all is needed. all the hardware on mine looks good the typical middle bushings are of course rotted out and gone.

i made a mistake with the support your looking at you wouldn’t haft to undo the rack from the top.

sloshua wrote:

Rick im going the route mentioned by 98riv on page 18 of course as i get the bolts out of the back and lower it down ill keep an eye on the main harness plug on the firewall so i dont damage it as I lower the cradel. I dont wanna haft to remove the whole cradle iv already been in there to replace the rear trans mount and that in its self was a major pain  in the ass since I didn’t have the long extensions to get the bolts out of the rack from the top needless to say I really had to try hard to break them 2 bolts loose on the rack while under the car in that small space and I don’t wanna do it again it damn near killed me . I also hope the steering linkage will move enough to let me do this if not ill haft to get back in there and unbolt the rack. But ill post what I spend on parts and where I get them once I figure out what all is needed. all the hardware on mine looks good the typical middle bushings are of course rotted out and gone.

sloshua wrote:

i made a mistake with the support your looking at you wouldn’t haft to undo the rack from the top.

sloshua,
Without having looked under the car with the car elevated yet, I'm not quite sure what all needs to be removed to drop the whole cradle, but I was under the understanding that the whole cradle does need to be dropped. That's why I looked into the tool from HF. What are your plans for replacing all the rubber cushions and how are you going to remove the cradle without supporting the engine and trans.???
Based on the post from 98Riv on page 18 it sounds like he didn't replace the front bushings, just the 4 in the rear of the cradle. So he was able to gain enough room to replace the 4 rears by just removing the 4 rear bolts. Am I correct on this.?
Are you planning on replacing all 6 bushing assemblies.?? If so, how do you plan on replacing the 2 in the front. ?
From what I've read, it requires dropping the whole cradle. Am I wrong on this point or can all six be done without supporting the engine and trans from the top by just keeping the 4 rear bolts loose while removing the front bolts and rubber insulators.?
I have read this thread from page 1 to the end a while ago and am still confused about the procedure to get it done without damaging or stressing any other components, i.e. steering rack, wiring harnesses, etc.

Also wanted to ask again if you can share with me the location of where you are going to buy the parts and the cost of the parts. I'm confusing myself with doing so much analysis. It's a common problem for me......"Paralysis from Analysis".

Sorry for the long winded question, but it seems you've got a better grasp on how your going to approach doing the mechanical part of the job as well as what vendors you will source the parts from.

And what about that post on pg. 18 about the Dorman mounts. Has anyone commented on how or if they work for our cars.? The price is much more reasonable than the OEM parts.

Thanks for any input you can provide me.

Rick

98riv said
Unfortunately you can't do one corner at a time. The subframe won't drop down far enough. I had to remove all the bolts in the rear and then loosen the front bolts a little bit to give me enough room while supporting the subframe with a jack. Go slow and don't try to force the bolts too much.

So what I plan on doing is loosening them all and doing one side at a time.
I am in contact with gm parts direct waiting on a list of parts. As for cost i really don’t care if I was to pick and choose the cheapest part from each place id still take it in the wazoo on shipping.
As for the doorman parts they don’t look as beefy as the oem stuff does in the 1st couple pages of this thread u can see all the bushings laid out and the oem ones look alot more stout than what doorman has to offer.
The one extra thing I will be doing to make these last longer is painting the crap out of them before and after i get them installed in the hopes of keeping them from oxidizing and fallin apart again.

I also replaced the front bushings. You will have to completely remove the rear 4 bolts and loosen the front bolts to give you enough room to remove the rear bushings. I used a jack under the subframe in the rear to give control and support while the rear bolts were removed. You will have to keep it supported while the bolts are out. It is not really possible to do one corner at a time as the subframe won't drop down far enough.

Thanks for the reply Sloshua.

And not to beat a dead horse to death but, doesn't this look just like the mount assembly's used in our Riv's.?

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-924-003-Subframe-Mount/dp/B0026M5TII/ref=au_as_r?ie=UTF8&Make=Buick|45&Model=Riviera|394&Year=1999|1999&n=15684181&newVehicle=1&s=automotive&vehicleId=3&vehicleType=automotive

Haven't found what it fit's yet, but just saying the cup type washers or Retainers look the same as what's been shown in this thread earlier.

EDIT: Found the Dorman P/N 924-044 to fit the 1999 Riv Only. That just offers more confusion because the GM parts list says the 97 thru 99 are the same. DUH, I don't know anymore. That's why I'm going to my parts guy locally and try to sort all this out and get an accurate list of P/N's that I need to order.

I'm going to go to my local Federated independent auto parts store and ask to look through their Dorman catalog, not the computer, but the paper catalog and see what I can find that may fit the Riv's. I'm just curious if the stuff is available locally before I order on line from GM.
Will post any of my findings.
Rick

thanks rick & 98riv for the info.
Rick i seen some where in this thread where some one I think had used those mounts for the 99 but they were not tall enough for their year of car so the upper insulator was loose. But this is my battle as well figuring out what to use and where cus for my year there are some discontinued parts. Even gm parts direct lists a white and green insulator but make no mention as to what position they go in

sloshua wrote:

thanks rick & 98riv for the info.
Rick i seen some where in this thread where some one I think had used those mounts for the 99 but they were not tall enough for their year of car so the upper insulator was loose. But this is my battle as well figuring out what to use and where cus for my year there are some discontinued parts. Even gm parts direct lists a white and green insulator but make no mention as to what position they go in

I've seen the white and green option for my year as well. I "assumed" the green was made of some better material because the cost is higher. Just don't know for sure.

from what I know the ones in the middle are different compounds thats why they are different part numbers on some diagrams

I confirmed today with a Tech Engineer at Dorman Products that the P/N 924-044 is a complete assembly that fit's position #3 (rear) of the front cradle for years 97 - 99.

It consists of everything needed to replace that rear most cradle mount. The upper retainer, upper rubber mount, lower rubber mount, lower retainer and bolt. A complete assembly.

Found that P/N on Ebay for $40.55 and my local parts store quoted me $59.55. Could probably get a discount from the local store if I show them a print out of the Ebay listing. It has worked before.

Anyway, this helps save some money towards the replacement of all the mounts.

Just thought I'd pass on this info.

Anyone ever swap for poly?

i would if I could find a kit to do it with.

Does anyone have the dimensions? Prothane and EnergySuspension has several universal type.

very interesting Sall i have some on the way from gmpartsgiant for my 95riv i could give you dimensions for those but I doubt it would help much as they are compressed quite a bit after install especially the upper insulators.

sall wrote:

Does anyone have the dimensions? Prothane and EnergySuspension has several universal type.

Don't mean to be lazy, but I am terrible at finding things by searching, do you have or could you post links to these manufacturer's of the Poly components.

I have yet to drop the cradle but will be doing that this week and maybe I can take some measurements that will allow us to look at what poly pieces are available, short of custom making them.

I'm still trying to sort the through the various companies, mentioned on here, that supply the OEM parts.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Energy-Suspension-Universal-Isolators.asp

There are probably some from another make and model that would work as well, but none listed that cross reference to Aurora/Riviera/Cadillac with the same bushings.

Just wondering if anyone can confirm what Position #1, 2 and 3 are in respect to the front cradle mount bushings.?

I know logic would say that #1 is front, #2 is Mid and #3 is rear. But I can't find that info definitively in the FSM.

It becomes an issue when your trying to buy the replacement mounts and or pieces that make up a mount assembly.

If anyone can help me with this identification problem I would be most appreciative.

In a related note: I received the Dorman mount assemblies today. P/N 924-044, but have yet to drop the cradle and see if they will work properly for the rear most mounts. That is what the Dorman engineer told me they would fit.

We'll see. But in the mean time if someone could please answer the question above or at least provide me what chapter and page number to find it in the FSM I would be closer to solving the mystery of available aftermarket parts or even OEM parts, if that's what it comes down to.

Thanks for your help.

Rick

When I did my mounts years ago, it didn't matter which position, all the parts were the same. There are no differences between positions 1, 2 or 3, identical hardware.

LARRY70GS wrote:

When I did my mounts years ago, it didn't matter which position, all the parts were the same.  There are no differences between positions 1, 2 or 3, identical hardware.

Thanks Larry,

If that's the case then I should be able to order 4 more of the Dorman mounts that I already bought from Amazon.
That would save hundreds of $$$ compared to buying the OEM parts.

I'm sure the Dormans will work just fine, however I must point out that the different locations have different durometers and are listed as such in the GM parts catalog. I forget who I did this for exactly, but here are the P/N's listed for the bushings in each location.....

Thanks Abbadon,

This pic and P/N's will be helpfull.

Since I bought the 2 Dorman assembly's I'm going to see how they fit and decide what to do from there.

Normally I wouldn't have bought the aftermarket stuff and just went with all OEM parts, especially the rubber parts due to possible durometer issues, but I am real short of cash right now so I tried to save a few bucks.

We'll see soon if I shot myself in the foot by buying the Dorman kits. Once I have the cradle lowered and get a good look at everything I'm sure it will all become clear.

Worse case scenario is I'll modify a bunch of Hockey Pucks that I have and stuff them in the holes.

Abaddon wrote:

I'm sure the Dormans will work just fine, however I must point out that the different locations have different durometers and are listed as such in the GM parts catalog. I forget who I did this for exactly, but here are the P/N's listed for the bushings in each location.....

I do remember ordering all the parts from GM, but I don't remember noticing the part numbers were different for the different positions.  They all looked exactly the same, and felt the same to me.  I ended up only changing the rear 4, 2 on each side.  My front ones were mint, so I couldn't see changing them.  The front ones are protected by the front splash shield so they were not corroded at all.  I left them.  I did the Addco sway bars at the same time.  My car rides and handles better than it ever did.  Rick, I'm sure the Dorman parts will work just fine. I would look at your front 2 mounts, they may be fine as mine were.