Write-Up: Front/Rear (Addco) Stabilizer/Sway Bar Installation

DEMonte1997 wrote:

What Aaron said. I did a sway replacement in a buddy's Regal a few weeks ago and it was a bitch to get in but it happened after about 10 mins of jostling. I assume there's about the same room in the Riv.

Just drop the rear of the cradle and save yourself a headache and about an hours time.

Reading all this talk about sway bar links......just use the factory links, and replace the bushings with the black Energy urethane sleeve from Pep Boys (front). The factory links from a PAU with the F41 suspension has urethanes for the rear......

I didn't have the trouble you guys had. Taking out the OEM bar required a little persuading, having never done it before, but installing the new one was easy. The Addco bar has a different bend that let it slip right in. PS - having headers may have helped (codith has SLP knock-offs). My experience with dropping the cradle alone took MUCH more time than installing the sway bar.

About the sway bar links: the factory links are thin and typically rust out. They are often the first pieces to fail on the front suspension. One popular replacement is the Moog link set. If you try using Energy Suspension bushings on a Mook link bolt, the bushings don't fit snug when using an Addco sway bar. If you try to tighten them, the bolt threads will strip out.

More info on this: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7376p30-write-up-stabillizer-anti-sway-bar-link-upgrade

EDIT: Scott, is the energy "sleeve" a different product than the standard bushings set?

but you still had to disconnect the tie-rod though.

I'm not sure how old the information on the first page of this is, but I'm looking at doing the front and rear sway bars. I called addco and it sounds like the front 2018 kit includes everything, but the rear 2015 kit is only the bar. Is that contact for John at 1-800-338-7015 still correct? Just trying to get everything figured out before I place my order for the bars from summit.

Is Sumitt cheaper than E Bay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Addco-2018-Front-Anti-Sway-Bar-Stabilizer-Roll-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem48400ac7b5QQitemZ310312093621QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Addco-2015-Rear-Anti-Sway-Bar-Stabilizer-Roll-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45fa0d5ed4QQitemZ300547923668QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

only difference is ebay has free shipping. the picture though does not show the brackets for the front and nothing but the bar for the rear. summit claims to have included hardware, but i dont think the guy looked at all though. I just want to make sure I can locate everything I need as in the brackets, end links and bushings.

Lol, I like how NeverEnough uses an image of my car (from page 2 of this thread) for their ebay page.

Personally, I wouldn't use the hardware included with Addco's bar. Energy Suspension makes a quality greasable insulator, and you can build your own links for about $35, or buy a cheap set for $15-20 locally. See link above for more on building a good set of links.

I saw they used your car for reference. Saw it and was like hmm that car looks familiar, lol. I called Summit again and asked them specificially what do these come with. The guy claims it comes with everything. As in bushings, mounting hardware and end links. I'm probably going to go that route and see if anything is missing. If I don't like what I get I'll look more into your suggestion. Thanks for the info.

Update on the addco front bar -

My brother has been noticing a clunking on turns for the last few months. We finally dug into it this weekend, and what a shock. The sway bar ripped the bolts out of the subframe. The sway bar bushings are not bolted to the 'frame' part of the subframe (square tubing), but rather to the sheetmetal that comes down to the bushing mounts. I was expecting to find rust or rot around the subframe, which would have surprised me because I thought the subframe was in great shape. Turned out there is NO rust or rot anywhere near the area in question. The stress just tore the nuts up and out of the metal, including a small area of metal around the bushing brackets. I know there was no cracking before the addco bar went in, as I had the subframe completely out when I installed the transmission and sway bar. There is still very little surface rust and no rot, and no cracking anywhere else.

For now he is driving with the sway bar removed. (note about removing the sway bar - the neverending header/flexpipe tick is now gone!!!) Handling is okay, as the upper strut tower brace is still there doing it's job.

Is it possible the addco bar is TOO stiff?

Holy hell. That's some crazy stuff. Never heard of that on w-body boards or anything with Riv until this point. Can you re-tap the holes and use larger bolts to re-install that beast bar?

I'm in shock. . .

Maybe run the bolts through the subframe and use a steel plate on the bottom to help distribute the force?

I have never heard of that happening, but i have heard of w-body guys breaking the actually bars (hollow ones).

Mr.Riviera wrote:

Maybe run the bolts through the subframe and use a steel plate on the bottom to help distribute the force?

I have never heard of that happening, but i have heard of w-body guys breaking the actually bars (hollow ones).

Just want to clarify that I agree with Matthew and was one of many that broke my stock sway on the Regal (with stock effing suspension) at 60,000 miles. lol Have a stock GP bar on there and it's good. Frank's car donated it. hahaha But never heard of one pulling the bolts out like what you had with your Riv. I know the g-body platform is solid... not sure if that had something to do with it?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad to hear that this happened. Now we know how strong and stiff these bars really are. It's really not surprising when you think about it. The Addco bar is trying to keep more than a ton of weight from leaning over in a turn that can come close to a full lateral G. That's a serious amount of force that only the biggest cars with the grippiest tires and the tightest suspensions can create.

For the bar to pull up the bracket mounting bolts, it tells us there's some serious work being done, and no, I don't think the bar is too stiff. The bar might be too stiff for the bracket bolts, but It's not too stiff for the car unless it impacts handling in a bad way. A couple of symptoms for a front bar that's too stiff are lots of understeer, and an excessively harsh ride. If you are happy with the handling, I'd find a way to bolt that sucker back on!

DEMonte1997 wrote:

Holy hell. That's some crazy stuff. Never heard of that on w-body boards or anything with Riv until this point. Can you re-tap the holes and use larger bolts to re-install that beast bar?

I'm in shock. . .

The holes are gone. They tore the nuts and some metal around the nuts right out. No stripped threads, we had to hold the nuts with vice grips to get. The brackets/bushings off.

I love the way the car handles with the addco bar, but I'm not sure where we need to go from here. New subframe or massive reinforcement... My brother doesn't care about cornering so much, so there is a good chance this won't get fixed.

Something doesn't add up: if your bro doesn't care about cornering much, how did he manage to rip the bracket bolts out of the cradle? Is this something you could have done before selling to him? How are the end links (they usually break first)?

Just a wild thought, but if someone had the car lifted, and they were using jack stands on the cradle (very common), and they happened to lower the car and forgot a jack stand wasn't clear, it could rest all the car's front end weight on two bracket bolts. Or, if the cradle slipped off the stand, it could make contact with the bar. I'd inspect the bottom of the bar for marks or dents in that area, if possible.

AA wrote:

Something doesn't add up: if your bro doesn't care about cornering much, how did he manage to rip the bracket bolts out of the cradle? Is this something you could have done before selling to him? How are the end links (they usually break first)?

Just a wild thought, but if someone had the car lifted, and they were using jack stands on the cradle (very common), and they happened to lower the car and forgot a jack stand wasn't clear, it could rest all the car's front end weight on two bracket bolts. Or, if the cradle slipped off the stand, it could make contact with the bar. I'd inspect the bottom of the bar for marks or dents in that area, if possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if I started the damage before selling it to him. I cornered it pretty hard, most of the time. The first thing he did was put the stock wheels back on. He's more interested in pure economy and wanted the taller tires over the wider ones. (he has a 70+ mile each way commute). It's been creaking/clunking for many months now, and we weren't able to find it. (didn't look awfully hard). Not to say he never corners hard (part of better economy is not having to slow down for turns, after all), but he doesn't push it like I did. I can confirm the latter things never happened to that car.

deekster_caddy wrote:

DEMonte1997 wrote:

Holy hell. That's some crazy stuff. Never heard of that on w-body boards or anything with Riv until this point. Can you re-tap the holes and use larger bolts to re-install that beast bar?

I'm in shock. . .

The holes are gone. They tore the nuts and some metal around the nuts right out. No stripped threads, we had to hold the nuts with vice grips to get. The brackets/bushings off.

I love the way the car handles with the addco bar, but I'm not sure where we need to go from here. New subframe or massive reinforcement... My brother doesn't care about cornering so much, so there is a good chance this won't get fixed.

Eek.. I wouldn't go without stabilizer bar of some sort up front. Seems hazardous without one even with the STB up top.

DEMonte1997 wrote:

Eek.. I wouldn't go without stabilizer bar of some sort up front. Seems hazardous without one even with the STB up top.

I don't know about the front but I didn't even really notice the difference when I had to drive around with the rear bar off for a few days. I obviously wasn't trying to tear ass through any highway on ramps or anything but I could live without it if I had to - again that's the rear. It's probably gonna hurt the most when he wants to make the quick high speed manuver - bad time to have a wobbly car. I'd try to weld it back in and maybe put a stock bar and hardware back since he doesn't care and sell the Addco and get some money back for the trouble.

Having one broken end link is as good as having no sway bar. And my car had a broken end link for at least the first year I had it, and I didn't even know it! The car handles reasonably well, the average driver would never know it was missing! It still has the STB up top in the front, plus the rear Addco bar is probably making a huge difference.

I had a broken front end after a trip up rt 129 in TN. I agree it wasn't that obvious, but it gave me enough reason to take the car into the shop 3 days later to have an inspection done. Something felt loose, and although the links looked fine, the tech showed me the bad link, still clinging on for dear life.

It isn't something most with stock suspension would notice, but for us with F/R sway bars and other modifications, it only takes a couple of really hard corners to know something's up.

Maybe I've missed it or I'm posting on the wrong thread, but are the original front and rear sway bars worth anything?

they are worthless. for someone restoring a riv to its factory offering.they have value.

They are worth something to a car with no bars at all! But compared to the stiffer replacements, not really worth anything except for a restore, like robo said.

That's what I figured. I'm just gonna throw them out.