Replaced broken brake line and now bleeding isnt working...Pedal crashes...

So I blew a brake line awhile back and have bled the brakes as stated in the write-ups. However the brakes constantly go to the floor and i have to pump them constantly. I have tried the hand-pump miti-vac deal today and it still don't work.

HOWEVER my abs light and traction control light have been on since i got the car before the line broke.
Is there a bleeder for the ABS module that I cant locate? I am just lost as to why when I have no leaks and i push clean fluid all the way through all 4 wheels that Air magically reappears in the line and the pedal constantly crashes to the floor. Any insight would be appreciated since I really don't want to fork out the dough to rely on a shop to do the work.

just a note but the brake system worked absolutely superb before the steel line snapped in the middle of the car to the rear left tire. I replace a whole 7 foot section and didnt make any flares as i a had a perfect fit to the rubber line all the way to the front.

You should re-bleed all of the brakes. Sagging pedal sounds like a bad master cyl IF there is nothing wrong elsewhere. Technically, when you bleed the brakes you are supposed to bleed the ABS unit too, which requires a tech-II to fire the individual abs pistons. In reality I've always been okay with a regular two-man bleed so hopefully that's not your issue.

Having the ABS/trac light on indicates there is another problem. Usually that means an issue with a wheel speed sensor. If the ABS head is no good that will set the light also, but you need the ABS codes read, not something a typical code reader can do. But that's an electronic problem. The pedal sag is a hydraulic problem...

Edit - just noticed you have a 95, not sure how you pull ABS codes in that, but the information still applies...

Edit II - If you lost enough fluid when the line blew you may need to bleed the master cyl individually before it works normally again.

You must bleed all four corners. First start with the master cylinder.
Have a friend slowly depress and hold down the brake pedal. Loosen the forward brake pipe connection at the master cylinder,the nut closest to the front of the car. Let the brake fluid come out.Tighten the nut. Wait 15 seconds .and repeat procedure. do this 4 or 5 times,should be enough. Then move to the rearward nut closest to the firewall and repeat procedure.Keep fluid levels high.
After youre satisfied the master cylinder is bled,move on to the calipers in the following sequence.
Right rear,left rear,right front left front.

You know,hold pedal down,crack nut,fluid out,tighten nut,release pedal slowly,repeat.
If that dont do it something else is wrong.
This is the bleeding procedure out of the 1995 FSM. Worked for me.

hey Deek and Robo I will do that. I never bled the brake master cylinder. Hopefully thats my issue. I will try that and get back to you. fingers crossed that it works because I did run the system dry when the line initially blew. I guess Im an idiot to forgetting about the master cylinder bleeding as i was too worried to try and figure out how to bleed the ABS

deekster wrote:

Sagging pedal sounds like a bad master cyl IF there is nothing wrong elsewhere.

This could be the key to your problem, imo. I think deekster nailed it.

There's a difference between a pedal sagging slowly to floor and a "spongy" pedal. If the pedal feels like a soft spring, it means there's air in the line. If the pedal feels firm, but slowly drops to the floor, it means there's either a leak in the system (look for dripping fluid), or the master cylinder piston seal is bad, which won't keep pressure. It sounds like this is what is happening to you.

With modern ABS systems, many advise NOT to bleed brakes using the 2-man method, pumping the pedal. Either gravity bleed or use a Mighty Vac pump. The reason for this: in a healthy system, only part of the bore in the master cylinder is used by the piston. This portion of the cylinder is kept clean. If you bleed the cylinder by pedal, the piston can move past its regular stroke, into the dirty portion of the cylinder. Especially with old MCs (like mine), this can dislodge dirt, which can then move downstream into the ABS pump valvebody, which can be a bad thing. If the car doesn't have ABS, or you don't care about your ABS pump, obviously it won't matter. Just something to be aware of.

If you decide to replace the master cylinder, I recommend the ATE unit that came with our Rivs from the factory. Mine's got over 250k miles and still works 100%.

just my 2 cents..I takes a whole lot of fluid loss and Then some to deplete and endanger the ABS block.inside the ABS blok are seals baffles and God knows what else.
If you were a total yahoo and let the system run dry overnite before tackling the repair I would say ya might be screwed.if ya tackled it riteaway ya might be Ok.
I have done some bonehead things while attempting to service my system ,including letting it run DRY,and i still was able to bleed the system.
Barring all that you might have other issues.tackle the Total bleeding before building a noose!

okay well im a yahoo then because it broke at night and with work in the way i couldnt get to it for 2 days. So my plan is to start cheap and easy...

*I'm going to bleed master cylinder first and then the tires again i suppose.

*now is that a for sure deal on the 95's that i cant bleed the ABS system without a computer diagnosis?

No. bleeding the system will move fluid thru the ABS block.
ps
do not bleed the tires.if you do and dont have a air pump you are double screwed

robotennis61 wrote:

ps
do not bleed the tires.if you do and dont have a air pump you are double screwed

Okay ill bleed the brakes then. lol

robotennis61 wrote:

do not bleed the tires.if you do and dont have a air pump you are double screwed

robo do you mean the calipers? I've never heard a reason not to. Don't you want to replace the most burnt/boiled fluid with clean new fluid? The only issue is occasionally the bleeder screw is frozen and requires a little heat to get unscrewed. I've never used an air pump in 25 years fixing cars... always the two-man bleeding from the caliper method has worked for me.

deekster_caddy wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

do not bleed the tires.if you do and dont have a air pump you are double screwed

robo do you mean the calipers? I've never heard a reason not to. Don't you want to replace the most burnt/boiled fluid with clean new fluid? The only issue is occasionally the bleeder screw is frozen and requires a little heat to get unscrewed. I've never used an air pump in 25 years fixing cars... always the two-man bleeding from the caliper method has worked for me.

im pretty sure robo's making a crack at humor, and of course i would have to bleed calipers.

please consider making yourself an air powered bleeder, there's a write-up on it on this site.

Albertj

RiverUPnGO wrote:

deekster_caddy wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

do not bleed the tires.if you do and dont have a air pump you are double screwed

robo do you mean the calipers? I've never heard a reason not to. Don't you want to replace the most burnt/boiled fluid with clean new fluid? The only issue is occasionally the bleeder screw is frozen and requires a little heat to get unscrewed. I've never used an air pump in 25 years fixing cars... always the two-man bleeding from the caliper method has worked for me.

im pretty sure robo's making a crack at humor, and of course i would have to bleed calipers.

Yeah I reread that and he mentions the calipers above. My bad for skimming.

:hangs head in shame
:goes home to bleed tires

okay so i did have air in the master cylinder... go figure. After bleeding that i did the calipers and bled til new fluid and no air showed. Then started car and pedal went spongy right away. Brakes feel better but i have to pump to prevent hitting floor eventually. Now please tell me the MC is bad because I can deal with that easily. One thing I want to say is that when the car is off and i hit the brakes, after 3 pumps they are firm and will not travel anymore. Now just because it does that doesnt mean the MC is good right? The MC being bad is such an easy fix and I just want my brakes back....

I suk at diagnostics,but it might just be a bad M/C.

Quote :

Now please tell me the MC is bad because I can deal with that easily.

MC is bad. We told ya already!

AA wrote:

Quote :

Now please tell me the MC is bad because I can deal with that easily.

MC is bad. We told ya already!

I know i know, I just knew that there was a great chance there was air in the MC so I just wanted to deal with that before moving forward. Picking up MC today...

ya did good buddy!

Follow the MC bleeding instructions, often it's required on a bench before installation!!!

Okay well.... Operation complete. Finally I can stop on a dime...

Isnt it great when shit gets fixed. Now all ya need is a F-body brake mod and youll be in SuPer business!

Just curious what the MC bleeding instructions were.

there were like 3 ways to do it in the instructions. I just hooked it on the car and used the pedal to bleed through back into the reservoir and then held pedal to the floor and hooked up the brake lines.. it was easy. I think i spent like 15 min putting it on and being done.

Note to readers - if you are mounting an MC by yourself you can put it in a bench vise (a "WorkMate" or similar will do) then with little pieces of brake line that point into a waste container (empty plastic bottle w/cap?) fully depress the piston (cutoff broomstick or a squeegee handle works for this). Repeat until fluid emerges without bubbles (will take some doing). This prevents small bits of dirt and what not (there probably aren't any) from getting put back in the MC and scoring the cylinder walls et cetera, they would be flushed out. CAp teh exit ports before installing the MC onto the car, flush the lines completely after install, longest (usually pass side rear on a US car) to shortest (usually driver side front on a US car). Cap and properly dispose of the waste brake fluid (maybe an ounce or 2).

Albertj