FAQ: Power Steering Pump & Hoses - Noise & Problems

ya thats the theory I've been going off of as well

I'm guessing maybe the pump is seizing up. The torque on the pump from the large pulley may be enough to rip it off the motor. I've never heard of it happening this way, but it's the only thing I can think of that would have enough torque to shear the bolts off!

Continued discussion from a question in the Belt Chirp thread:
https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t5509p180-faq-chirp-chirp-chirp-belt-squeal-pulley-tensioner-squeak#181627

I've removed the PS pump before. It's not hard at all - two bolts, I think. Disconnecting the PS hoses might be a bit more work, but shouldn't be that bad. If it were mine, I'd consider replacing the entire pump with as many miles as it has.

Yeah it seems straight forward, I'm just wondering since the pump is still functioning, whether I can get away with removing and replacing the pulley at the vehicle and not worry about replacing out the entire pump.

Takes two 13MM bolts. You'll have to feel around for them, but they're there. Be careful reaching around the pulley. I cut my hand pretty good because there was a sharp piece of metal hanging off the pulley.

Thanks for putting my original post in the right thread Aaron.

Has anyone had any experience with pulling the power steering pump pulley off when the pump is still attached to the engine? I only ask because my pump is still functional, my pulley is just wobbling and causing my belt to squeal. Would love to just switch out the pulley without taking everything off the block. Thanks!

Here are my thoughts - please understand I've never separated my PS pulley from the pump. This info is based on some web searching. Two things:

1) It seems the PS pulley is removed from the pump using a puller tool. I have used these for the AC clutch pulley - MUCH easier to do off the car, as you need some room to fit and use the tool. Here's a diagram:



The two bolts (#2) you see in the diagram are the ones I posted about earlier, for removing the pump.

2) Also from the diagram you can see the pulley is mounted to a shaft, which is assembled with bearings inside the pump. If you only replace the pulley, it may not include the shaft & bearings, so probably won't correct the wobble you're seeing.

A pulley sold at RockAuto appears to not include the shaft/bearings.

Gotcha. What I was planning on doing is renting the Autozone power steering pulley puller / installer and seeing if I can get the pulley off while the pump is still mounted to the engine. If the replacement pulley still wobbles I'll go through and do the whole pump job.

Just my 2 cents, but for me, replacing the whole pump and reservoir is easier than replacing just the pulley on the car.
$51 for acdelco pump w/reservoir Vs. $24 for new pulley.

You will still need the rental tool to get your pulley off to put on the "new" pump. Not hard to do off the car, its just pressed on.

I'm with Aaron that the wobble is from the bearing inside the pump, not a bad pulley. They are pretty heavy duty steel and there isnt any stress on it that would cause it to become mis-shapen and wobble.

You DEFINITELY don't want to try and take it off while the pump is mounted to the car. Trust me, it will destroy your arms and hands. It's a pain in the ass. I do this for a living.....
If anything, detach the pump from the car and let it hang. This will give you more space to take it off. Even then though, you'll be fighting yourself for leverage. The ideal spot to replace the P/S pulley is in a vice.
When I absolutely HAVE to take a pulley off on the car (some don't have holes to unbolt the pump), I use a 3ft long 1/2" ratchet with a 22" long box wrench....and it's still hard.  

Chances are, it isn't the pulley that's bad. I'm yet to see an actual bent P/S pulley that isn't part of a recall, or hasn't been in a wreck. 9.9 times out of 10, it's the pump itself that's bad. Take the belt off, grab the P/S pulley, and pull up/down in/out on it. It probably moves....

EDIT: as for removing the P/S pump, it MUST come out the bottom of the car. It will not physically fit going up. The vehicle needs to be on a hoist, or jacked up high enough for you to get under safely to remove it. It's a pretty standard procedure. Remove belt, remove hoses, unbolt the pump, and pull it out.

EDIT 2: I also looked up the actual procedure for removing the P/S pulley on the Riv. Line #2) REMOVE POWER STEERING PUMP FROM VEHICLE. Hope any of this helps...

Right on guys! Thanks for the valuable insight. I will get this job going and report back. Once again, you guys rock

Also, as far as a bleed procedure goes on this...I've read up on a couple but have settled (I think) on vacuum bleeding it similar to the procedure here http://canadapumpandgear.com/technical-support/89-2/

It's basically just sucking the air up through the reservoir. Any of you guys disagree with this method?

That's what I did and I didn't have any problems. Just be a little cautious about making a mess. Power steering fluid doesn't smell good.

werdstrave wrote:

Also, as far as a bleed procedure goes on this...I've read up on a couple but have settled (I think) on vacuum bleeding it similar to the procedure here http://canadapumpandgear.com/technical-support/89-2/

It's basically just sucking the air up through the reservoir. Any of you guys disagree with this method?

Our steering system doesn't require any extra bleeding procedure other than filling it up, starting the car, turning the wheel lock to lock, shutting the car off. Wait until the bubbles disappear, top it off, repeat. Or, if you have the tires off the ground, fill it up, don't start it, turn lock to lock, etc etc . Either way works just fine.
There's absolutely no sense whatsoever in doing any more work than that. It's a low pressure system, and the reservoir is the highest point in it. The bubbles will eventually stop in the reservoir. MAYBE 20 minutes tops will have the system bled without a vacuum pump.

The ONLY time I have to use a vacuum pump is on GMs "new" high pressure steering system where the pressure line forms an upwards arc on the back of the engine. Air gets trapped up there, and that system turns 1 little bubble into 15 million tiny ones....

Update on this job. I Just finished and started turning the wheel lock to lock. It makes a whining sound at both extreme ends. To me, this sounds like air in the system. I only did this for a few minutes, I'm going to try doing this for a longer time period and if that doesn't work, see if I have an adapter for my vacuum pump. Am I right to assume there is air in the system causing the whine?

werdstrave wrote:

Update on this job. I Just finished and started turning the wheel lock to lock. It makes a whining sound at both extreme ends. To me, this sounds like air in the system. I only did this for a few minutes, I'm going to try doing this for a longer time period and if that doesn't work, see if I have an adapter for my vacuum pump. Am I right to assume there is air in the system causing the whine?

You don't need a vacuum pump. If it's only whining on the locks, there's only a little air left. It will come out on its own. Every car on the planet makes more noise when you hold it against the steering stops. Make sure the P/S hoses aren't grounding out on the frame, the body, or each other either. If the metal from one of those hoses is touching something, it can also cause a whine when you hit the stops.

Ok it's been about 5 days of taking my car through it's normal work commute routine and the pump still whines. A little quieter but basically just as much as it did the first day. Nothing is grounding. I've also been getting an intermittent P0501 - Vehicle Speed Sensor Range/Performance, with a sudden failure in my speedometer (reads 0 MPH) and then the car is unable to shift gears and I'm stuck in the latest gear. It also seems like I'm riding around with the breaks on, like I need to give it more gas to get up to speed. Almost as if the "new" pump is loading the rest of the system. Steering is fine though. I'm assuming the computer needs to learn the new pump but it's been 5 days....What is going on???

As an aside, I noticed that the only thing wrong with my PS pump was actually a warped pulley that was causing the chirping that triggered this job. Unfortunately I noticed this after I got the pulley off the old pump and onto the ACDelco reman I bought from rockauto. Had I known this, I would have just popped the replacement Dorman pulley I got from OReilly's on the pump as mounted (pretty sure it can be done although very tight). <-- Useful info for anyone thinking about doing this.

And now my assumptions. I think the ACDelco pump they gave me is either the wrong part or bunk. The reservoir attached to the rockauto ACDelco was the wrong one (could be for the non-super charged 3800). It also had fluid coming out of the reservoir like someone just took it off their car. I checked rockauto parts for a 3800 w/ SC and 3800 w/o SC and they are the same pump apparently . But what's up with this reservoir that is nothing like the one that was on my stock pump??? I wound up taking this alien reservoir off the reman and putting my stock reservoir on the new reman pump and successfully installed the pump. I also checked the part number on the new Dorman pulley from Oreilly's and it is the same as the one on rockauto so that can't be the problem...

This has all been super frustrating as a 3 hours job turned into 2 days with crap results. I'm leaning toward pulling this rockauto ACDelco reman off my car and putting the stock back on unless someone has anymore insight into my predicament...

P0501 is transmission-related - it is not power steering related. Your description suggests you are stuck in a gear - maybe 2nd. Try manually selecting gears to see which one you are in. It could mean the speed sensor is malfunctioning, or it could be a failing/sticking transmission solenoid. If this is the case, it's coincidental to your PS pump repair. If it turns out to be a solenoid, some have had these replaced on-car, without a pulling the trans.

However, since you were in there working on the engine, it's more likely something was bumped, unplugged, or disconnected, causing the issue. Check any wiring you might have touched, check the running voltage, check for blown fuses. Make sure there are no other DTCodes.

I doubt the new PS pump is loading the engine enough to cause the transmission issue. Turn the PS pulley by hand without the belt. If you can rotate it, the engine will have little trouble doing the same.

You say your old PS pulley became "warped", as in not loose but bent? It's a steel pulley, right? How would it bend/warp? Very strange.

It's possible the AC/Delco part is an updated version. Many parts on our cars are "improved" or "replaced" over the years, in order to work better for multiple applications, or solve defective situations. I wouldn't worry too much about the size/shape of the reservoir - as long as it fits without interference.

Or, it could be the wrong one. I would agree swapping on a good pulley to your stock pump could rule out a lot. I think it could fix the whine, but I don't see it fixing the P0501 code. Best of luck solving this, and sorry to hear it's been such a frustrating experience.

Aaron, thanks again for much added insight/wisdom. I did bump some mucked up harnesses when in there for sure. I'll clean them out and reattach to see if is solves the P0501. Then I will spin the pulley to see if it spins free. Yes the pulley was straight up warped and not spinning true. Very strange I know but I swapped it and spun it on both pumps and wobble wobble. Put the New dorman on both pumps and spun true.

I'll see how the car runs after messing with the harnesses. If the whine doesn't go away by the weekend, I'm going to put in the old pump. OY!

P0501....that's the Trans Output Speed Signal code i believe. That sensor is on the trans case right near where you were working. Your Speedo won't work if that signal goes out. Hopefully the sensor didn't get bumped and crack or something.

The whine should be long gone by now...

Very, very odd that your pulley was actually bent. Something had to have hit it pretty freakin hard to bend it.

Seconded (Thirded?) that the speed sensor is right around the PS pump, make sure you didn't pinch any wires behind the pump.

Sup fellas. I put my original pump back in with the new pulley. She started right up, whined for a second and then purred like a kitten. Also, the speed sensor socket hoursing was chipped at the trans so I'm going to pick up a new sensor at Autozone. This was most likely my problem. Notes from this job for others: It is possible to remove and install PS pulley with pump mounted to engine, although it's tighter then a virgin in there. It is also possible to have a warped pulley and a functioning pump. Cheers to all who helped with this!

I noticed lately that when I take the cap off the power steering reservoir I hear a whoosh of air come out.  Air pressure is building up until I remove the cap. Is the cap bad or is something else causing this?  I don't remember this happening in the past.

98riv wrote:

I noticed lately that when I take the cap off the power steering reservoir I hear a whoosh of air come out.  Air pressure is building up until I remove the cap.  Is the cap bad or is something else causing this?  I don't remember this happening in the past.

You probably have something starting to leak somewhere, causing minor air intrusion. I wouldn't worry about it. Almost every older car I take the cap off of makes that noise. As long as it isn't whining, the fluid isn't aerated enough to hurt anything.

Abaddon wrote:

98riv wrote:

I noticed lately that when I take the cap off the power steering reservoir I hear a whoosh of air come out.  Air pressure is building up until I remove the cap.  Is the cap bad or is something else causing this?  I don't remember this happening in the past.

You probably have something starting to leak somewhere, causing minor air intrusion. I wouldn't worry about it. Almost every older car I take the cap off of makes that noise. As long as it isn't whining, the fluid isn't aerated enough to hurt anything.

Thanks. I may try tightening the power steering lines where they bolt into the rack and pump. Do the threads need any sealant on the hoses?