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 engine swaps for N/A Series II

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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Need info on swapping non SC 3.8 with SC 3.8   Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi,

Just found this site and it seems great.

I have a 95 RIV non SC. With a blown engine. I have a 1995 RIV with a SC parts car that runs. Can i Swap Engine and trans directly into my NON SC car? Can some one point me to any threads here that will give me some hints?

Thanks In advance

BIG-AL
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oldsman105
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:19 pm

You will ahve to swap the PCM as well. No one on the forum has attempted this yet. There might be some unforseen problems.
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:47 pm

Well i quess i will be the first one. nervous

I will post my progress if anyone is interested.

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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:50 pm

We will be! Keep us posted, sounds like fun. And good luck!
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Brad95Riv
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:01 pm

Hmmm, I wonder how different the wiring is between the two. You may need to swap the whole wiring harness over to your car as well.
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xxsupergman25xx
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:19 pm

ok i know pretty much the minniumum about cars...

but swapping an indentical engine would be the same wiring...
cuz i know u can put a supercharger on 3800 series 1 engine without redoin everything...but i am definetly interested in how the progress of this...
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SpaceBar
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:21 pm

I'd love to hear about any progress you make. Goodluck and ask us any questions you have we will try and help out!
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jax95riv
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:11 pm

Wiring harness and PCM should get you close. Do you have a set of GM manuals? What state are you in?
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: 1st update   Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:37 pm

Hi,

O.K. here is my first update on this swap.

The red,white, and blue connectors on the non SC computer harness are identical to the SC computer harness and all of the wires go to the same functions as well. There is 1 extra wire that is in the wire harness for the SC car and that of course is the boost solenoid circuit.I do not know as of today if the wire is actually in the harness and not being used or if i need to add this one wire. I haven't dug into the car that far as of last night.

All of the sensors are identical with the exception of the EGR Valve. They are on opposite sides of the manifolds, but the plugs are the same.

The exhaust manifolds are different but the rest of the exhaust is identical and should bolt up. More on that later in the swap.

It looks like the entire engine harness unbolts as one piece from the rear of the firewall, and should make the swap less of a headache.

The starter is the same.

The kickdown and throttle cables are different, but are interchangeable.


More on this later in the week.

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:05 pm

Thanks for the info! I'm sure the '95 guys really appreciate you looking into this project.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:34 pm

Good work man! Keep it up
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Quick Update on non SC to SC engine swap.   Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:41 pm

Hi Guys and Girls,

Just pulled the SC engine out of the donor car, and I can confirm that all you need to do is unplug the engine wiring harness at the bulkhead connector and it will come right out with the engine. No need to unplug each sensor or mark any of the wires. I took this out as a single unit (engine and trans), so you will need to unplug the trans sensors. I do not know if the connectors are the same on the non SC RIV and the SC RIV yet. That will have to wait until tomorrow, to tired right now. smile

I took the oil pan off of the non SC car and found about ten pieces of piston skirt and a shiny connecting rod waiting for me in the oil pan. shocked

This engine never even ticked, knocked, or smoked. Just went KABOOM. flame

Well good night for now.

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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:36 pm

DUDE im not making fun of u BUT i thought ur name that says BIGAL i thought it said BI-GAL LMAO sorry dude wow im dumb
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:02 am

That is the smartest thing I have ever heard anyone say about anything. LMAO!
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:53 am

98riviera98 wrote:
DUDE im not making fun of u BUT i thought ur name that says BIGAL i thought it said BI-GAL LMAO sorry dude wow im dumb

Don't feel bad, it happens to me a lot on other sites that i visit. Sometimes works to my advantage. It seems that all my questions get answered faster.

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Brad95Riv
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:06 am

Cool, keep us updated!
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Quick update   Wed May 09, 2007 4:13 pm

Well we haven't had any time to install the SC engine in the car yet. But did notice that the PS pumps are different. NON SC has tank with dipstick mounted on pump, SC car has remote tank and dipstick. Normally this wouldn't matter as you would just use the PS pump from the SC car . BUT the SC car had no PS when i drove it. So i assumed it was the pump. I going to try to change over the tanks from my old pump to the SC tank and see if that works.

Anyone know how to test the pumps when they are off the car?

Thats it for now

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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 pm

i dont think there is any way to test the pump, but PS pumps are pretty cheap cant you just get a reman and install it before the swap?
so whats different about the manifolds?
good work so far thumbsup

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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Wed May 09, 2007 11:14 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
i dont think there is any way to test the pump, but PS pumps are pretty cheap cant you just get a reman and install it before the swap?
so whats different about the manifolds?
good work so far thumbsup

on the NON SUPERCHARGED they are like this (the portholes) 0..0.....0
and the superchargerd (the portholes) 0 0 0
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Fri May 11, 2007 9:30 am

Mr.Riviera wrote:
i dont think there is any way to test the pump, but PS pumps are pretty cheap cant you just get a reman and install it before the swap?
so whats different about the manifolds?
good work so far thumbsup

I managed to swap over the tanks really easy. Two clips are all that hold the tanks on. I have this whole parts car here so i am trying to spend as little money as possible.

The differences in the manifolds besides the exhaust port orientation is that the EGR valve is located on the front manifold on the SC engine and the rear on the NON SC engine. also the front manifold has a crossover pipe that bolts to the rear manifold at the rear of the engine , the NON SC bolts at the front.

I also noticed that the non SC car has cast iron manifolds, the SC has a steel manifold in the front and a cast manifold in the rear.


So far this all pretty much very easy to swap.

More updates coming soon

BIG-AL
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Fri May 11, 2007 9:44 am

98riviera98 wrote:
Mr.Riviera wrote:
i dont think there is any way to test the pump, but PS pumps are pretty cheap cant you just get a reman and install it before the swap?
so whats different about the manifolds?
good work so far thumbsup

on the NON SUPERCHARGED they are like this (the portholes) 0..0.....0
and the superchargerd (the portholes) 0 0 0

Actually you have that backwards. The SC car has them laid out E.I.E.I.I.E
The NON SC has them E.I.E.I.E.I

Good obsvervation, i have had these two engines sitting side by side for a week and never noticed the difference until you pointed it out.


Thanks

BIG-AL
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Fri May 11, 2007 6:27 pm

oldsman105 wrote:
You will ahve to swap the PCM as well. No one on the forum has attempted this yet. There might be some unforseen problems.

i have done it on a Buick Park Ave and there is a bunch of differences! Fuel pump and wiring for one
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Sat May 12, 2007 9:49 am

Archangel wrote:
oldsman105 wrote:
You will ahve to swap the PCM as well. No one on the forum has attempted this yet. There might be some unforseen problems.

i have done it on a Buick Park Ave and there is a bunch of differences! Fuel pump and wiring for one

My local GM dealer and my alldata program both tell me that part # 88962474 is the fuel pump for both cars, SC and non SC.
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BIGAL1128
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PostSubject: Update on progress   Mon May 14, 2007 12:39 pm

Hi,

Well we finally got the SC engine installed today. Some problems have creeped up. The exhaust pipe that connects to the rear manifold is different. According to alldata and my dealer the pipes should be the same, but they are not. The studs on the SC manifold are actually closer together than the NON SC car. So now i need to swap the exhaust system.

The other difference is in the fuel lines. The NON SC car uses plastic flex lines that are just pushed on over the metal lines. The SC car uses plastic lines with plastic quick disconnects. So the choices are replacing the metal lines from the back of the car or flaring the ones that i have. The flare tool to do this is very expensive, but we have access to one so that helps.

But the good news is all of the electrical connections have turned out to be the same and we had no problems conneting the transmission plugs to the original NON SC car plugs,

So long for now,

BIG-AL
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: engine swaps for N/A Series II   Mon May 14, 2007 12:43 pm

Al, thank you very much for all the information. This is the kind of stuff that benefits the forum the most! Keep us updated, and best of luck finishing the project.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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