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 P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!

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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:43 pm

matt270avian wrote:
So that means it's basically either a plug/wire or a coil then, right?

If it's a single or pair of cylinders, maybe yes. If it's the entire engine, no.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:28 pm

It's cylinder 6. Letting it cool off for a bit so I don't burn my wrists trying to throw in a new plug.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:16 pm

Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:30 pm

If it were the coil, the other cylinder associated with that coil would be misfiring as well......
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:56 pm

Haven't had a chance to go back out and try anything new, but here's that video I promised (taken last night, before I fixed the boost issue). For some reason it cut off, but you can still hear it sputtering.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3c5pslfjsrzzgd/2014-12-18%2003.18.30.mp4?dl=0
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:53 am

matt270avian wrote:
Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.

Inspect the wire carefully for physical damage - dumb stuff like ablation of the center conductor. Explanation: on wires that have the carbon core conductor, they sometimes are cut or overcrimped such that in use the electrical energy causes the center conductor to ablate, literally meaning to evaporate due to the energy from the coil not all being conducted to the plug. What you do is pull back the boots and look at whether the center conductor is under the terminal crimp on the cable, and whether that conductor is cut or frayed. I suspect yours may be frayed or busted on one end, probably the plug end. On wires with a wire conductor, look for a break in that wire, most likely by one or the other terminal end.

The other thing - do your coils match? If someone replaced that coil a while back and used the wrong type you could have a problem. What usually happens is someone puts a coil for the non-SC ignition onto the ignition of a SC engine. When coil is new it's not so obvious. After a while (can be a year or more) the problem shows up. IIRC either coil will work OK on the non-sc cars; you really must use the SC coils on the SC cars, and your coild really must match - that is, the SC and non-SC coils have different resistance ranges, the details are posted elsewhere on this site, the point is don't mix them on the engine.

One more thing - maybe the last time plugs were freshened the #6 (its a bear to reach) maybe was left in place. I have seen these where a so-called-mechanic changes the plugs in the front bank and leaves the back bank alone in the entirety because he/she does not happen to know how to get them out (basically you use spark plug socket on a 1-1/2" wobble extension attached to a ratchet wrench and some band-aids...) As you already know, (I would not say this but you're not the only one who will read this) be sure to blow out the dirt away from the plugs before you pull them, with compressed air, so you don't get that dirt on the landings or in the cylinders when you pull/replace the plugs, the wells are deep so this is a real issue.

"Happy motoring. "

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:52 pm

albertj wrote:

matt270avian wrote:
Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.


Inspect the wire carefully for physical damage - dumb stuff like ablation of the center conductor.   Explanation: on wires that have the carbon core conductor, they sometimes are cut or overcrimped such that in use the electrical energy causes the center conductor to ablate, literally meaning to evaporate due to the energy from the coil not all being conducted to the plug.  What you do is pull back the boots and look at whether the center conductor is under the terminal crimp on the cable, and whether that conductor is cut or frayed.  I suspect yours may be frayed or busted on one end, probably the plug end.  On wires with a wire conductor, look for a break in that wire, most likely by one or the other terminal end.

The other thing - do your coils match?  If someone replaced that coil a while back and used the wrong type you could have a problem.  What usually happens is someone puts a coil for the non-SC ignition onto the ignition of a SC engine. When coil is new it's not so obvious.  After a while (can be a year or more) the problem shows up.  IIRC either coil will work OK on the non-sc cars; you really must use the SC coils on the SC cars, and your coild really must match - that is, the SC and non-SC coils have different resistance ranges, the details are posted elsewhere on this site, the point is don't mix them on the engine.

One more thing - maybe the last time plugs were freshened the #6 (its a bear to reach) maybe was left in place.  I have seen these where a so-called-mechanic changes the plugs in the front bank and leaves the back bank alone in the entirety because he/she does not happen to know how to get them out (basically you use spark plug socket on a 1-1/2" wobble extension attached to a ratchet wrench and some band-aids...)  As you already know, (I would not say this but you're not the only one who will read this)  be sure to blow out the dirt away from the plugs before you pull them, with compressed air, so you don't get that dirt on the landings or in the cylinders when you pull/replace the plugs, the wells are deep so this is a real issue.

"Happy motoring. "

Albertj

Coils all match and look to be original (they still have the numbers on them). Wires appear to be original too, so I was going to swap them out anyways. Still haven't had a chance to swap wires/coils around to see if the misfire moves around, despite what Abaddon (and a few other people) say about how if a coil fails it will cause a miss in 2 cylinders. I've read a fair bit saying it could cause only one to miss, and it's free to test it so why not?
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:38 pm

Swapped coils - noticed the terminal on 6 looked a little rough, sanded it - missfire stayed at cylinder 6

Tried swapping wires, couldn't get them to reach, bought new ones (temporary cheap AutoZone ones, getting nice ones after Christmas), had friend who lives next to AZ pick them up and bring them to me, swapped them, NO MORE MISSES WOOOOOOOOO

Thanks everyone for the help.
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KnottyEagle
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:58 pm

Good to hear! Wires and plugs solved my misfire.
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