Custom Adjustable Front Coilovers for All Years (fabrication required)

Quote :

there is a clunk on the drivers side where I fabbed up the bracket for the control just a little wide.

See the F-body thread for my theory on this.

Hey Robo! Can you get some more pics for us to drool over? Maybe a few distance shots to see the current stance of the car? and some more detail shots of the swapped control arms and subframe modification?

I'll get some pics up when I instal my rear coilovers.As it is,it's only about an inch over what it was.2" total.
Fukin cah is a beast.I cant remember when I was in a better sprung Buick?Even a ride in a souped up Grand National wasn't as good.
I'm convinced that a pillow ball mount is the absolute shit.If you don't run 'em ya don't know what yer missin.

Update on the coilovers

In the first week or so I noticed nothing out of the ordinary with the new set up. Not too harsh,450 pound springs didnt take getting used to at all.IMO. They feel just right. Any spring rate can be substituted though. I just like the heavier spring.If you live in a pot hole riddeled city then maybe a softer spring would be better.

The pillow ball mounts ride just the way they should. There is a super fast response to steering input. FAST. The Riv slot cars on the road.Steering the car now winds you further into the intended direction faster! The car absolutely gets wherever, quicker.
I did not buy Torrington bearings for my set up. TORRINGTON BEARINGS ARE AN ABSOLUTE MUST. I will order them in a day or so. Without them the front suspension has a tendancy to snap and pop just a bit. Nothing to worry me though.

The pillow ball mount spherical bearings MUST be oiled regularly. A drop or 2 every other week has proven to be suffiicient.

The oil filled Konis are INCREDIBLE!
ANY ONE WHO HAS A FEW EXPENDABLE DOLLARS AND BUYS A STANDARD OEM OR KYB OR MONROE OR GABRIEL STRUTS ARE WASTING THEY'RE MONEY.

I previously offered my fabrication services to anyone considering upgrading to a full adjustable suspension. I no longer have the time to do this.I have a full time job now and my extra time off is dedicated to my own pursuits.
My sincerest apologies
R

Quote :

I did not buy Torrington bearings for my set up. TORRINGTON BEARINGS ARE AN ABSOLUTE MUST. I will order them in a day or so. Without them,the front suspension has a tendancy to snap and pop,just a bit. Nothing to worry me though.

How much do the Torrington bearings cost, and what is different about them compared to other types (assume you mean strut mount bearings)? Also how do you know for sure the snap & pop behavior will be resolved with the new bearings? What are you running now?

A Torrington bearing set are needle bearings set in a race.Very flat,they go below the spring.they are there to facilitate turning full lock.At least thats how I see it.and also aid in spring set up.
On a Mcpherson strut assembly at full lock,the strut turns too. Torrington bearings make turning full lock easier.Some run 'em some don't.I didnt think I needed them but I do.
When I say snap & pop at full lock,the spring flat grabs at the bottom adjuster nut.No big deal.Its an annoyance.Nothing more.Over time there might be some scarring at the bottom adjuster nut.
As for snap & pop being resolved with the addition of Torringtons,Yes.it will resolve the full lock noise.But as with any race set up there will be more NVH.No getting away from that.There is JUST NO other noise isolation system aside from the tires to dampen the car.  
Torrington bearings cost $25 bucks a side.They are not needed at the rear.Well they are if you f..k around alot with the ride height.I'm gonna set 'em and forget 'em.
 A cushioned pillow ball mount can also be purchased that will decrease the NVH. I dont experience any input that to me is at all annoying.Not even a persistent tick.Nothing.On smooth roads the car behaves very nicely.On bumpy pot holes a little less.A passenger who doesn't know what I run wouldn't know the difference.An experienced driver might notice a firmness in the ride closer to a sports car.Being a Buick they might wonder? but wouldn't have the common sense to point it out.

robotennis61 wrote:

....... Dont forget,the Riv has a front end weight(mine at least) of 2220 lbs.thats heavy.The spring weight specified for that amount of weight according to the Affco spring chart is 500lb springs! I dropped that by 50 lbs for comfort reasons.

Not teaching how to suck eggs...

carefull changing the spring rate from suggested weight... it will effect ride height (sag) and can cause excessive nose dive under hard breaking......

Just something to consider....

Regards

robotennis61 wrote:

The oil filled Konis are INCREDIBLE!
ANY ONE WHO HAS A FEW EXPENDABLE DOLLARS AND BUYS A STANDARD OEM OR KYB OR MONROE OR GABRIEL STRUTS ARE WASTING THERE MONEY.

I propose to anyone considering buying this set up and cant get around the fabrication issue,welding,cutting and the such,buy the set up and have PSI Performance send the kit to me.I will cut and weld the kit for ANYONE for a small fee.There is alot of perishable material in the fabrication of this kit. Welding wire,burrs,sand flap discs,acetone..etc.

Buy the kit,send it to me,and I'll send it back to you all ready to JUST bolt into your car and go.No Guess work on your part. I feel that strongly about it.
R

Robo, I am beginning to lean towards this option. I may call on you to, "HELP A BROTHA OUT!".

Something doesn't sit right. Are you sure Affco isn't suggesting 500 lb for the entire front axle? So divide by 2 for each wheel. Our stock front spring rate is listed as 148lb in the spring thread. So if you're running 450 lb per wheel that sounds way high. 225 lb per wheel seems like it would be extra firm. 450 lb is something like you'd find on a full size Ford pick-up.

@ Nigel,450lbs are way nice and the Koni controls rebound & compression as good as or better than anything I've ever driven ('n that aint sayin much!)

@ Charlie Robinson, hey! mi casa su casa!

@ AA, the Afco chart is a suggested spring rate chart based on vehicle weight(according to them) and performance driving.I've long considered upping the spring rates even before finding the Afco chart.I really have nothing to complain about regarding the stiffness or lack of.Bo over at PSI performance did a double take when i asked him to send me the 450pounders.I have not looked back or doubted once my choice.I love them.If I lived in NYC for example,450pounders might be a little high.But out west they just make sense to me driving on mostly super good infastructure.As far as dividing the Afco suggested spring rate in 2? ya might be rite.I'm keeping my 450pounders.

Update:
Just came back from a 1500 mile road trip in the Riv.She behaved beautifully.

My first time long haul trip with the Riv and I gotta say ..She is a road killer. 90 mph where I could was a doddle! no prob.she soaks up distance in comfort and class.powerfull and smooth.

My coilover setup worked just the way it should.the car cornered incrediblly well! I had a BMW and a couple of other sporty type cars wobbling in the corners while I just cruzed on by.

The Rivs front end takes corners so flat now.There is understeer with the very stiff front end but I have to really push her to get that.The rear end is in no way as stiff as the front.not yet. The car has to be travelling really fast and hard into a corner to get the front end to push. my regular driving style cant touch the new setups cornering capabilities.I never see the push.but its there.at the limit it comes.
On 90mph curvy mountain roads the Riv just sticks.its amazing! I cant wait to set up the rear.
I have so much more work to do to complete my suspension mod.

1) front and rear race car sway bars and arms.
2) rear coilover conversion
3) replace outer tierod with heim rod end
4) install spherical bearings at all 8 control arm bushing locations.
5) eliminate rear RSSA and install custom rear individual control arm brackets.
6) fabricate rear brake caliper bracket to run twin piston Firebird calipers in the rear with Willwood "Spot brake caliper" for E-brake
7) fender extensions ,body & paint etc etc etc


In a previous post I noted that the series 1 ball joints and tie rod ends fit perfectly in the series 2 alu knuckle and control arm.They dont. They work remarkably well but it appears that the series 2 ball joints and tie rod ends have what I can only deduce as a "Higher Taper height" meaning,they are taller. I did not pick this up when I measured the 95 and the series 2 ball joint and tie rod. My 95 tie rod end and ball joint boots cracked in the trip.I even lost my passenger side tie rod end rubber boot. so..I will be buying the series 2 tie rods and ball joints.

whats this?  oh shit its my new rear fully adjustable coil over set up!  oh in all its glory!

SWEET! Now put them on the car!! (Actually, I'm interested to see your improved spacer mount for it. Hows that going? or are you going to stick with your 1st version for now? I think I'm going to tie mine into a brace accross the trunk.)

Hopefully I'll be placing my order on Monday! Can't wait to see how it handles!

..yeah,im gonna do a web thing and weld it to the fender well.should be strong enough.
still i have to fab a shim for the top hat.
oy vey,will the fabbing ever end?

..ok.Got my rears all set up and installed. Had to make a bracket for the control arm.The little weasel speed clips just would not cut it. I cut the new ones out of 1/4" steel.Alot harder than it looks when ya don't have a nice big cut off saw.
First the plate



Then the ears



I clear coated them.I kinda like the way they look in raw steel.  Next mounted to the control arm



Another view



Top mount.the Konis are spherical bearing mounted.  no deflection at all.



The big picture

That looks awesome
So the original spring is gone and now the shock tower is holding the rear weight of the car now? That's some pretty serious re-engineering, risky no?

no,i dont think so. if i see any rippling ill weld in steel.simple. dont forget the quarter panel on these cars are pretty stout.besides,the upper oem shock mount is reinforced.i left in the oem steel plate and the upper mount is made of 1/4 steel.all sandwiched together and stupid strong.

Lets see some drifting

So your bilstiens needed a 7" spacer down from where the OEM rear shcoks mounted, and I see this time with the Koni coilover you have it right up against the stock mount point. (Which renders any concern I had about deflection moot.) Is the Koni setup a bit taller then that you don't need such a spacer at the top? or is it your new bracket at the bottem that addes a bit of height?


And concerning the added stress of removing the stock spring, when I do mine I intend to tie the tops of the shocks together with a tower brace, as well as add in some cross bracing in the trunk. Its not like there is anything in the truck of my riv anyway.

Good morning!    
The Koni setup is roughly the same height. The body of the Koni is a little shorter than the Bilstein so i can run it a little lower in the car.I also dropped the car about an inch and change.My goal is 2 inches. The Koni has circlip channels machined into the body to allow you to place the coilover sleeve up and down the body in 3 different locations.Neat.I have the circlip in the middle local,I might move it to the bottom local to see how things look and ride.Right now its ok.I have to trim my quarter panel extensions a little because the tires are kinda close to the rim of the extension.

There is absolutely NO stress to the shock tower at all!  If you peel back the carpet you'll see that GM has a sheet of steel running from the OEM upper shock mount down to the floor of the trunk. really strong.  I took her for a little spin and I felt no issues whatsoever.

Regarding possible camber issues from dropping the rear..None.Because the rear control arms are mounted longitudinally. The tire remains true and perpendicular to the road.They were mounted this way imo to keep things straight when the auto height kicked in.

My initial driving impression on smooth roads the car drives really nicely.Very smooth and controlled. You can feel everything the car is rolling over but in a good way.not harsh or stupid feeling like when you're in a jap car that is lowered by way of cut springs and over compressed shocks and struts. This set up is taylor made to operate on a lowered car.The struts have they're close to 5 inch compression working range as do the rears.  With the rear shocks being hard mounted via spherical bearings and over the rough stuff,I do feel some more nvh but I can live with that.
The Riv is still a heavy car and knows how to keep things planted.The almost complete package has me stubbornly fighting G-forces in the corners.  Before,the tires and body sent out alarms if I went into corners too fast.Not any more.
All that remains for me to do is to replace the rubber bushings with sphericals bearings,and install Nascar sway bars front and rear. Then the package will be complete and I can then concentrate on body and paint.

Driving impressions with the front and rear in synch:Awsome.

robotennis61 wrote:

Driving impressions with the front and rear in synch:Awsome.

...so now it's time for the body & paint thread.

..anyday now...soon..many projects on the burner

robotennis61 wrote:

..anyday now...soon..many projects on the burner

Can you at least get us some pics of where you left off so we can keep prodding at you for more?

id love to my man but my car looks like a heap o dog doo right now. my friends proclaim shame when they see me drive up! they run and hide and refuse to ride