Name : walter Location : Chesapeake,Va Joined : 2010-06-13Post Count : 152 Merit : 3
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:33 pm
it was with the 3.4 dual overhead cam engine was indeed quite quick, was a very nice car
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:52 am
One of my best shots of any car. I finally figured out how to take night pictures with my digital camera, so here's one of them, unedited:
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:17 pm
one of the things i envy the civic si owners is the aftermarket items available. brembo big brake kit, $2900 not bad. if you dont deliver pizza all winter long to pay for that tasty bit of kit,well..then i dont know what>>>>
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:08 pm
First car
Next car
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:09 pm
Quote :
one of the things i envy the civic si owners is the aftermarket items available. brembo big brake kit, $2900 not bad.
The big brake kits are cheap, but totally unnecessary for such a light car. Even a few of the spec racer/touring Hondas keep stock calipers & rotors, and swap to race pads. But if you want them for show, I guess $2900 isn't too bad.
When it comes to building power, which is what these cars really need, it can get a lot more expensive.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:16 pm
I agree, not necessary for a light car. I threw some integra disc hubs in place of the stock civic drum rears (stock prop valve) and used brembo rotors. Combined with good rubber, it stopped on a dime. The total cost was $350 for the upgrades. Those cars are too light to necessitate the bigger brake kits. It would just be fluff.
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:16 pm
true true true. but fluff is ohh so nice.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:27 pm
You're right, they do look sharp. For what it's worth, StopTech front brake kit with 13" rotors will fit Riviera with 17" wheels and F-Body bracket mod. Price: $2,200
Sorry, but I prefer the StopTechs over Brembos any day.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:51 pm
It's certainly nice having aftermarket support, especially since I'm saving up for a catback that'll turn up the volume on my bass-rich(thank god!) exhaust a bit. If I had $2,500 to spend on mods though, I'd swap in a K20A2 engine and call it a day. I have a K20A3 which puts out 160hp/130tq and redlines at 7k with vtec on the intake valves only at 2300(no hits or crazy anime face). The K20A2 is in the Civic Type-R and puts out 200hp/160tq, redlines at 8500 and has the classic vtec on both cams at 5k I believe. I looked into swapping today's Civic Si engine in, the K20Z3(similar to the A2), but it has an electronic throttle and that simply won't do.
A3
A2
Vtec yo!
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:36 pm
IBx1 wrote:
I have a K20A3 which puts out 160hp/130tq and redlines at 7k with vtec on the intake valves only at 2300(no hits or crazy anime face). The K20A2 is in the Civic Type-R and puts out 200hp/160tq, redlines at 8500 and has the classic vtec on both cams at 5k I believe.
You can swap a k20a2 head onto your k20a3 (with k-pro) but I wouldn't rev past what the stock block it capable of...youll be spinning bearings..
AA wrote:
Sorry, but I prefer the StopTechs over Brembos any day.
why's this? Just curious....what about wilwood?
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:01 pm
AA wrote:
You're right, they do look sharp. For what it's worth, StopTech front brake kit with 13" rotors will fit Riviera with 17" wheels and F-Body bracket mod. Price: $2,200
Sorry, but I prefer the StopTechs over Brembos any day.
get outa town! i did not know? seems like alot? i bet those brackets alone would allow me to use a set of willwood calipers? might save a few dollars. i could do without the rotors,what interests me the most are the calipers. whats the part # for the set AA?
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:18 pm
Quote :
why's this? Just curious....what about wilwood?
Nothing against Wilwood or Brembo, but I respect StopTech more because of their published research and tech papers, a lot of which flies in the face of conventional wisdom on the subject. I respect when a company takes a logical approach to explaining the exact how and why behind their product's advantages. It takes confidence, shows leadership. It also indicates there is much thought and tested research behind their designs.
Applying StopTech's principles has helped me to maximize the Riviera's braking performance, even without buying a single product from them. Brakes were once the most concerning aspect of my car's performance, and now the strongest system on the car, as it should be. I would support StopTech by purchasing their products, if I had the money. There may be a pair of Aerorotors in the future... we'll see.
Wilwood is great, but my perception of their product is that it's good quality performance, but without a lot of explanation. I think most buy Wilwood by word of mouth marketing, or association with the show car circles. You just trust that it's good. Conversely, you only buy StopTechs for one reason: you've read their research and you believe in it strongly.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:25 pm
yeah but,whats part #? anxious in Vegas
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:45 pm
AA wrote:
Wilwood is great, but my perception of their product is that it's good quality performance, but without a lot of explanation. I think most buy Wilwood by word of mouth marketing, or association with the show car circles. You just trust that it's good.
Interesting. Probably the same as Brembo in most cases. I went Brembo strictly from word of mouth, w/o any research. I wasn't disappointed...that time, but Ill have to check out Stoptech, sounds good .Thanks AA
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:47 pm
Give yourself an evening. It's a lot to take in, but you'll probably learn something you didn't know. I found particularly interesting the science behind front/rear balance, and how adding a big brake kit could increase the stopping distance of your car.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:07 am
7901mark wrote:
IBx1 wrote:
I have a K20A3 which puts out 160hp/130tq and redlines at 7k with vtec on the intake valves only at 2300(no hits or crazy anime face). The K20A2 is in the Civic Type-R and puts out 200hp/160tq, redlines at 8500 and has the classic vtec on both cams at 5k I believe.
You can swap a k20a2 head onto your k20a3 (with k-pro) but I wouldn't rev past what the stock block it capable of...youll be spinning bearings.
A lot of people also swap the K24 head from a CR-V or Accord. Seems like a less expensive motor to find. Can't find any decent videos but there's vtec at around 5k and the engine still redlines at 7. Doesn't seem to make much more power, but you get the fun little kick in the seat.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:06 am
Man, swapping engines and heads... better find a garage, a big set of tools, a pile of money, and some shop manuals, quick!
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:15 am
AA wrote:
Man, swapping engines and heads... better find a garage, a big set of tools, a pile of money, and some shop manuals, quick!
How much is a super/turbocharger kit?
I won't be swapping anything, don't worry. Jackson Racing Superchargers run a little over $3,000 with a KPRO(very respected) ECU tune, LINK, and I can go turbo with a Greddy kit for pretty much the same price, but no tune, LINK. The turbo kit would be less reliable though, and take a lot more custom tuning to make it work right. It'd be a lot of fun but I think I'd want the S/C whine more.
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:37 pm
AA wrote:
Man, swapping engines and heads... better find a garage, a big set of tools, a pile of money, and some shop manuals, quick!
To swap the head its super easy. $400, 10-14mm and a head gasket. That's it. Prob take 2-4 hours...if you already have k-pro. If not, its like $995. Ouch
Swapping engines, almost as easy. Pluck the axles, undo the mounts and plugs, grab a cheap cherry picker-hoist, whatever you call 'em. The engines are so small its no big job at all.
IBx1 wrote:
The turbo kit would be less reliable though, and take a lot more custom tuning to make it work right.
Not really...I did mine for about $1500 tops. As long as you have Hondata, you can get it tuned for aobut $200. http://www.homemadeturbo.com/
IBx1 wrote:
A lot of people also swap the K24 head from a CR-V or Accord. Seems like a less expensive motor to find. Can't find any decent videos but there's vtec at around 5k and the engine still redlines at 7. Doesn't seem to make much more power, but you get the fun little kick in the seat.
Ya, your better off just swapping in a legend C32A (230hp/206tq, 15.5 1/4)....if it fits.
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:47 pm
I saw a turbo kit on ebay for $800 and change, I don't think I'd trust that one bit. There's enough people on EP3 forums who have pictures of their new turbo setup, and then a few photoshoots later there's a pic of an oil pan on the floor with lots of metal chunks sitting inside.
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:53 pm
IBx1 wrote:
I saw a turbo kit on ebay for $800 and change, I don't think I'd trust that one bit. There's enough people on EP3 forums who have pictures of their new turbo setup, and then a few photoshoots later there's a pic of an oil pan on the floor with lots of metal chunks sitting inside.
Yes, DEFINITELY don't buy an ebay kit. OEM parts work well...although Mitsubishi isnt the best of Jap brands...You can build your own once you understand the physics of forced induction. I suggest Honda/Acura engine performance or High performance Honda builders handbook for reading. Youll learn a good amount (not sure what your expertise is)
Parts: TD05h turbo from mitsubishi...just sold mine for $400 mitsu 450cc injectors...$80 resistor box (from accord, since the resistance on the fuel injectors is the same on accord as in the mitsu)...$20 Turbo Manifold...anywhere from $20-$200. The CRX cast iron stock mani works for this downpipe...$50 intercooler...again anywhere from $20-$800. You could use a fabb'd up side mount from an eclipse. Hondata....$400
Good tune, that's about it. I'm sure there are some small parts you'd need, but those are the big ones.
Or of course you can buy an already FI'd car....like the Riv !!
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:08 pm
If I ever do go turbo I'd buy a Greddy kit and I'd have to have someone install it and tune it. Problem is, for that money, I could buy my car again. I like this little engine though, sounds great and it's got some ass to it for what it is; a 2.0L N/A 4-cyl with variable intake timing.
Supercharger seems like it would be much easier to install. Bolt it on in place of the intake manifold, run the bigger belt over the pullies, find someone to tune it, and done. It's a self contained unit, unlike a turbo which requires engine oil and a custom fabricated exhaust system, plus front mount intercooler heat exhanger, lots of ductwork, etc. Plus, the S/C will almost never go bad, unlike turbos which can blow up or break a bearing from time to time.
7901mark Enthusiast
Name : Mark Joined : 2010-04-22Post Count : 127 Merit : 6
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:19 pm
IBx1 wrote:
Supercharger seems like it would be much easier to install. Bolt it on in place of the intake manifold, run the bigger belt over the pullies, find someone to tune it, and done. It's a self contained unit, unlike a turbo which requires engine oil and a custom fabricated exhaust system, plus front mount intercooler heat exhanger, lots of ductwork, etc. Plus, the S/C will almost never go bad, unlike turbos which can blow up or break a bearing from time to time.
You go with a garret bb turbo, its almost guaranteed to never go bad. As far as the oil, there is already a port in the back of the block to run a line to the turbo. Take off the oil pressure sending unit, run a T fitting, then supply the oil to the turbo. They have water cooler turbos also. How many turbos you see fail from Mitsu's and Subbies. I know it happens, but not as much as probably the cheap ebay crap turbos. Forced induction is forced induction. Im not sure how they are packing all the air/heat into the engine w/o cooling it on the supercharger. It you run under 6psi on the turbo, you wont need one either...but that's not really worth it. The turbo really is just a cheaper solution. You wont need a crazy custom exhaust with a turbo, just use the normal downpipe that fits your turbo, then weld it to you cat (or flow pipe...whatever you might have). Plus, I like the look of the intercooler
but to each their own. If I had to do it all over, Id just buy an already turbo/sc car...much easier
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: The Other Showroom: Current / Past Rides (Pt I) Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:47 pm
Quote :
Forced induction is forced induction. Im not sure how they are packing all the air/heat into the engine w/o cooling it on the supercharger.
In some ways FI is FI, but not in all cases. Ilan is right that a blower is the simpler, more durable, more easily tunable, and more practical set-up for driving on street than turbo. You can save money by skipping the IC with a blower, because the blower runs cooler, not being connected to the exhaust manifold, and not running the air through miles of plumbing. It's hard to skip the IC with a turbo and make any real power.
My brother, who graduated diesel mechanics school, has built and tuned two turbo I-4 engines, and also owned a twin turbo Audi S4. He absolutely will not touch another turbo car, because of the potential for problems, and the tuning. Sure, a Greddy kit is good to go, but you'll pay for that R&D. If you want to save money and piece together your own, it's a little different. A blower is so simple in how it works, and virtually maintenance free. Plus tuning a blower is easier, and the application of power is so much smoother than a turbo, which comes in with a surge. I think this is why you often need to replace engine internals with a turbo, but not so much with a blower.
And some will confuse a turbo's efficiency to produce power with fuel efficiency of the engine - I remind them that a turbo is an exhaust restriction at low RPM, and that a blower requires almost no energy to turn at similar low RPM; plus it can be bypassed. In that regard, forced induction is forced induction. You can be just as fuel efficient with a blower as with a turbo. But for building the highest peak power, turbo is the ticket.