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 Brake line failure

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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1831
Merit : 120

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySat Sep 05, 2020 8:13 am

Was driving on the highway last night when traffic stopped suddenly.  Hit the brakes and the pedal sank a lot.  Got the car stopped but it was scary.  Didn't feel any pop, just a sinking pedal.  Then the brake light came on with the constant dinging.  Haven't investigated yet because it was dark, but I am reasonably sure it is a metal line as the brake hose is intact.  There is fluid all over the right front undercarriage.  Pretty sure the leak is behind the plastic splash shield.  Going to use nickel copper brake line for the repair once I see where the leak is exactly.  My question is, what size are the brake lines, 3/16"?  What kind of flares?  I have a really good Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that makes all kinds of flares, so that is no problem. Double flare or bubble flare?  How about the fittings, are they SAE or Metric?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7833
Merit : 164

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySat Sep 05, 2020 12:23 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Was driving on the highway last night when traffic stopped suddenly.  Hit the brakes and the pedal sank a lot.  Got the car stopped but it was scary.  Didn't feel any pop, just a sinking pedal.  Then the brake light came on with the constant dinging.  Haven't investigated yet because it was dark, but I am reasonably sure it is a metal line as the brake hose is intact.  There is fluid all over the right front undercarriage.  Pretty sure the leak is behind the plastic splash shield.  Going to use nickel copper brake line for the repair once I see where the leak is exactly.  My question is, what size are the brake lines, 3/16"?  What kind of flares?  I have a really good Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that makes all kinds of flares, so that is no problem.  Double flare or bubble flare?  How about the fittings, are they SAE or Metric?

Bubble flares. Fittings are listed in the FSM, check yours, IIRC they are metric.

I replaced all my brake lines with that olive drab poly coated steel a few years (about a decade) ago, they have been fine since. I did not have the privilege of popping a line - the original lines had a lot of surface rust so I scheduled replacement for when I had $ and convenience. When I finally got around to it, one line had started weeping. Phew. Job's not bad with a handheld tubing bender and stock lengths HOWEVER there is one run that's too long for the lines CarQuest stocks, so I needed one union. The local mechanic I griped to about that told me STFU and just make sure the union is straight and tight. He was right of course.

One other thing - be CERTAIN to duplicate the stock routing in the fender wells (it makes this funny set of up and down turns) or else the tire will likely rub the brake line in turns. Also be sure to use the stone guard coils over the lines like they are from the factory. Not because they are "pretty" rather because no kidding they are needed although when you're under the car doing the job it does not look like it.
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1831
Merit : 120

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySat Sep 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Thanks Albert.  Ordered everything from Amazon.  Stone guard, 25 ft. roll of line with bubble flare metric fittings.

Was looking in the FSM for fitting sizes, but coming up empty. Got a page number Albert?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
Master
albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7833
Merit : 164

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySat Sep 05, 2020 10:00 pm

I got some parts fiche info...


The flare nuts are mostly M10x1x17.3 Except, for some reason, a couple at the ABS servo are M12x1x17.6 and the bulk tube is GM 12547207, 25ft rolls. They don't show P/Ns for pre-bent tubing, just list the bulk tubing for all the hard lines including even the short ones. The stock tubing is bulk steel 3/16".
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1831
Merit : 120

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySun Sep 06, 2020 10:10 am

Thanks Albert. I ordered a roll of the new Nickel Copper brake line with an assortment of metric ISO fittings. I also ordered some ISO unions in case I need them. Never used this new line, but everything I read says it is good stuff. Much easier to bend. Just need to be careful flaring it as it is somewhat softer. I have a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that is worth it's weight in gold it works so well. Bubble flares are a one step process, basically the first step in a double flare. I'll practice making several flares before working on the car.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
Master
albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7833
Merit : 164

Brake line failure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brake line failure   Brake line failure EmptySun Sep 06, 2020 10:42 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Thanks Albert.  I ordered a roll of the new Nickel Copper brake line with an assortment of metric ISO fittings.  I also ordered some ISO unions in case I need them.  Never used this new line, but everything I read says it is good stuff.  Much easier to bend.  Just need to be careful flaring it as it is somewhat softer.  I have a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that is worth it's weight in gold it works so well.  Bubble flares are a one step process, basically the first step in a double flare.  I'll practice making several flares before working on the car.

Been there, done that, you'll be 100% fine.
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