Write-Up: Spindle / Wheel Bearing / Hub Replacement

AA wrote:

Seems like the tie rod ends could cause that.

sweet.. thats easier too

and thats what tires plus said when they put new tires on my car..

I'm working on a tie rod write-up, will try and put it up tonight.

AA wrote:

I'm working on a tie rod write-up, will try and put it up tonight.

Thank you very much AA

I finally got to changing my passenger wheel bearing assembly today. It felt like doing an entirely different job than when I did the driver side not that long ago. It was actually quite easy. I was able to get all 3 bolts out with the wheel pointed straight, using a variety of 3/8' & 1/2" ratchet / breaker bar setups with extentions. The hub fell off this time without any prying or extra PB blaster. It took less than an hour, start to finish.

It turns out my ABS malfunction was because of the integrated speed sensor on the passenger side hub. Interestingly, this side showed very different symptoms than the passenger side. As I described in an earlier post here, the drivers side hub showed practically no symptoms all the way to the end at which point it allowed the wheel to flop all over the place. The passenger side was a gradually increasing growl sound you would expect from a failing wheel bearing and the slight roughness you can feel while driving the car. That was my cue to change it now, not so much the ABS problem I've been having. I tried to wiggle the wheel with the car on jack stands before I took it all apart to see if it was loose and it really wasn't at all. It still felt stiff.

So like I said, I felt like I was working on a totally different thing this time but I guess the moral is that apparently the hubs on this can go out in a few different ways and there isn't much consistancy to it. If you reach the milage where one goes out, get them both!

Both of the hubs I took off look exactly the same and they are cast a little bit differently than all the new (aftermarket) hubs I've seen from SKF, National, ect so I would assume that these were both original hubs I replaced.

drivers side replaced at 183,498mi
passenger side replaced at 185,538mi

Technically the passenger side hub had been bad since about 180k though because I've had that ABS malfunction since then.

turtleman wrote:

If you reach the milage where one goes out, get them both!

I have been saying this for a long time and nobody seems to listen. Thanks for pointing it out again!

Glad to hear it solved your ABS problem, and was much easier!

Quote :

If you reach the milage where one goes out, get them both!

I really can't agree entirely. It's just not that simple, imo. My driver side hub went out at around 105K miles - made a growling sound turning hard turns. 70k miles later, I replaced the other hub, but it didn't make a sound - it was just a little loose. I'm confidant I could have gotten 20-30k more out of it. I never had the ABS light come on because of either hub.

With the price of these hubs at $125 each, I can't justify throwing away a perfectly good bearing just because. What about the rear bearings? Do we need to replace them at the same time, too?

I think we can all agree that are three things that tell you when a hub has failed or is going bad:

1) growling sound during hard corners
2) wheel slop with car lifted (moving wheel 12/6 o'clock)
3) constant or intermittent ABS/TC light

In Codith's case, the car was telling him to change the hub - the ABS light was on! Once you check the wiring, connectors, and be sure the brake system is functioning, the hub is about the only thing left. Even though the bearing wasn't bad, the speed sensor was done, so you replace the bearing.

But if there is no growl, no wheel slop, and no ABS/TC, why change it? Would you change any other part of your car costing $125 if it were functioning fine and offered no performance advantage?

I do think the mileage has a lot to do with it, though. At 180k, I would be more inclined to do both front hubs rather than only one. It does seem ~180k is about the max life for these bearings, based on other members' experiences. But if you have less mileage on the car, and no symptoms, I wouldn't change a functioning hub/bearing.

So if you know the bearings tend to drop at or before ~180K, and your car has ~140K on it and you need to replace one hub, you wouldn't do the other one too, knowing you'll be back in 8 months to do the other side?

I might replace both at that mileage, or I might not. Since doing one side doesn't make doing the other side that much easier, I might just save it for another day. It's different when replacing multiple parts in the same area (ex: rotor, hub, strut) because you can do it all while you're in there. But in doing both hubs at the same time, the only advantage is in lifting both sides of the car instead of one side at a time.

I'd like to say I've had a front spindle break at high speed on a previous car because I let a bad bearing go too long. It was not a pleasant experience; I knew the bearing was going bad but let it go anyway. I would never suggest leaving a bad bearing on the car for any length of time, only trying to say that these hubs do show obvious signs when failing - if you check for it. Prior to showing these signs, I feel they function safely and perform almost as good as new.

Thanks guys! You rock! Based on the above info, are you saying that if I buy the hub assy's that it includes the bearing? If that is the case I would likely invest the cash and just do that, looks like less hours for my mechanic which may save me a little cash. I would assume that if he has no problems he should be able to doboth sides in about 2 hours....

I will probably just go ahead and get the parts for both sides, at 130K+mi it makes sense to me. As an example, when my accy belt idler pulley siezed, I replaced all 4 and new belts. Thats just the way I roll..... This car is my baby and I have all the work done by my mechanic. I love my Riv and dont mind dropping the $$$$, but I like to limit visits to the shop as much as possible.

Yes, the hub includes the bearing, sensor, and lugs. Be sure to invest in a Timken or other U.S. made part.

If you have the cash, doing both sides can't hurt. It's good insurance. As mentioned, I was able to get another 70k healthy miles out of my other hub that was not replaced. Even when I finally got around to replacing it, the condition was still pretty good.

Thanks Aaron, does Rock Auto carry the Timken hub? Got a part #?

Yes, Rock Auto carries the Timken as well as others.
Just look it up on their site for your year and position (front or rear).

Part # should be here: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/care-maintenance-f8/part-number-listing-t45.htm

I bought my Timken at Autozone. Rockauto has great prices, but they can beat you up on shipping sometimes.

I'm about to do my hubs - here's what comes off alldata:

1998 Buick Riviera V6-3.8L SC VIN 1
Vehicle Level Steering and Suspension Suspension Wheel Hub Service and Repair Front Hub and Bearing

Front Hub and Bearing
Notes

FRONT HUB/BEARING

REMOVAL PROCEDURE

Tools Required:
J 28733 Front Hub Spindle Remover
Raise the vehicle. Support the vehicle by the frame. Allow the control arms to hang free.
Remove the wheel and tire assembly.
Clean the drive axle threads of all dirt. Lubricate the threads.

Remove the drive axle nut. Insert a drift punch or a screwdriver into the caliper and the rotor in order to prevent the rotor from turning.
Remove the caliper bolts. Support the caliper.
Remove the rotor.

Disconnect the ABS front wheel speed sensor connector. Unclip the connector from the dust shield.

Remove the hub and bearing retaining bolts.
Remove the dust shield.
Place the transmission in PARK. Important: Replace the hub and bearing only as an assembly.
Use the J 28733 in order to separate the hub and bearing from the drive axle.
Clean the rust and the foreign material from the following components in order to allow proper seating of the bearing into the knuckle:
The knuckle mounting face
The bore
The chamber
INSTALLATION PROCEDURE

Install the hub and bearing to the drive axle. Apply a thin layer of grease to the knuckle bore. Remove the protective plastic cover before installation. Do not handle the knuckle or hub assembly by the ABS sensor wire.
Install the new drive axle nut, draw hub and bearing onto the axle.
Place the transmission in NEUTRAL. NOTICE: Always use the correct fastener in the proper location. When you replace a fastener, use ONLY the exact part number for that application. The manufacturer will call out those fasteners that require a replacement after removal. The manufacturer will also call out the fasteners that require thread lockers or thread sealant. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED, do not use supplemental coatings (paints, greases, or other corrosion inhibitors) on threaded fasteners or fastener joint interfaces. Generally, such coatings adversely affect the fastener torque and joint clamping force, and may damage the fastener. When you install fasteners, use the correct tightening sequence and specifications. Following these instructions can help you avoid damage to parts and systems.
Carefully install the dust shield. Do not damage the bearing outboard lip seal, or the hub and bearing bolts. Tighten Tighten the hub and bearing bolts to 95 Nm (70 ft. lbs.) .

Connect the ABS front wheel speed sensor connector. Clip the connector to the dust shield.
Install the rotor.
Install the caliper. Tighten the caliper bolts. Refer to BRAKE CALIPER REPLACEMENT. Tighten Tighten the caliper bolts to 51 Nm (38 ft. lbs.) .

Insert a drift punch or a screwdriver into the caliper and rotor in order to prevent the rotor from turning. Tighten Tighten the drive axle nut to 145 Nm (107 ft. lbs.) .
Install the wheel and tire. Tighten Tighten the wheel nuts to 140 Nm (100 ft. lbs.) .
Lower the vehicle.

just replaced 96 Riviera front hubs. the 3 bolts holding the hub on were T55 torx, and loaded from the front, accessed via the larger of the 3 holes in the hob itself. Aside from that, the rest was the same.

I finished replacing the other bad front bearing on my 97. I did not have to remove the axle or the ball joint to get at them. Luckily the axle popped free with a good whack of a rubber mallet which allowed me to slide it in and out a bit, which helps to get at those bolts. It wasn't that bad, I had to beat the hub with the back of an axe (correct tool for the job, right?), and with a little pry bar prying it came out. I found it easiest to get the axle bolt off when the car is still on the ground, just put the pry bar on it, and I stepped on the bar to crack it, then took it off.
Here is a video I took of my previouse bad bearing that was making a loud whine. I replaced this one in feburary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpGM1HDaxec

Anybody ever heard of "AutoExtra" hub assy's? Looks like that's what Summit offers. No country of origin info provided, that I can see.

I've now got an ABS light that turns on as soon as I hit 15mph, every time. Always off at start up. Guess I'll be checking connectors when I find time.

GARBAGE! Do Not buy Auto Extra unless you can afford to replace them again in a year or so. I sell SKF, and Auto Extra and all the shops that have tried them tell me the AE are junk. They refuse to buy the them and always opt for the more expensive and much better SKF.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm intending to buy Timken if I find I need to replace hubs. Was curious about this AE brand though. First I've heard of them. Probably for good reason.

Hey,I am planning on doing this in the next couple of days.I read through the whole thread a couple of times,and I'm unclear on the torque of the caliper bolts.I've read 147 ft lbs,and 50-55 ft lbs??

I know I'll catch hell for this, but in almost 30 years of servicing my own disc-brake calipers I've never used a torque wrench... Tighten them slowly, then give them, at most, another 1/4-turn after they're "normal tight".

Some people just have a naturally calibrated arm, others who don't work on cars much may require a torque wrench for piece of mind.

There are some things, such as cylinder heads, that I will use a Torque Wrench on but I agree, I've never used one on brakes, suspension parts and many other things that you just have a feel for.

Regarding your request for the proper Torque Spec's, I really do not know.
Maybe someone else has that info recorded for you.

The caliper BRACKETS which bolt to the hub are 147, they need to be tight! The caliper bolts (caliper to bracket, also called guide pins) are only 50 -tight, but not like the bracket needs to be.

If you have the correct torque wrench on hand, there's no reason not to use it.

Eldo wrote:

I know I'll catch hell for this, but in almost 30 years of servicing my own disc-brake calipers I've never used a torque wrench... Tighten them slowly, then give them, at most, another 1/4-turn after they're "normal tight".

Same here.