Diary of a Dying Transmission

I've been getting P0741 codes like crazy over the past few days. It means the TCC is sticking and will not engage. Sometimes it works, today it wouldn't engage at all. Transmission works fine otherwise, but fuel economy won't be as good. Long trips will be limited, as trans temps are now higher than normal during cruise(but thank goodness for winter!). I used the PowrTuner to program the SES to stay off for this code, so I can drive with the light off. This way I'll know if the light comes on for another reason.

Is there any way to fix the TCC/solenoid without replacing the trans? If I can't make it right, I'm going to try my damnedest to make this tranny die... so I can put a new one in. Hate to replace it now, as shifts are still firm & quick, no slipping. It's been a well-behaved transaxle for quite a few miles of spirited (sometimes abusive) operation. Thought I would've replaced it long before now... oh well.

I'll keep everyone posted as things turn for the worse, or better.

I have heard you can replace just the TCC solenoid. You have to take the side tranny cover off to do it. Personally I would wait and just do a intense / zzp transmisson...


What are your Trans temps up to now?

On my 30 min drive to work, I'm seeing 198ºF. Yesterday it was warmer, and I drove around a bit more, got it up to 216ºF. I've never seen it that high before.

If I get a new transmission, it's probably be a used/rebuilt OEM replacement. Ed Morad has them for a pretty good price. My original unit lasted 145k miles so far... how much more can I really expect from a racing trans costing twice as much?

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/4T65E_Shift_kit_shift_improvement_kit_p/500-000037937.htm

addresses P0174 codes..... but as stated in another thread..the kits designed to be installed during rebuild...

I would like to get a junk trans an do my own rebuild...cant be difficult...these are the trannys they allow wyotech students to learn from....that an you can buy ASTG manuals....

quote: "cant be difficult..."

I know you've seen the inside of an automatic transaxle before. I haven't, but the illustrations in my shop manual invoke a fear I haven't sensed since childhood.

I have loads of respect for hose who can understand and rebuild these complex machines.

plenty of maunals,and step by step DVD's that cover disassembly part by part,inspection of wear,testing solenoids,and clutch packs,special tools....im up for it...just need to get the right tools for the job....

i have had the whole valve body out of a neon trans,i could almost stick my head up inside of it... but somehow made the mistake of dumping all the check balls in the oil pan.....ran to a dealership who curteously zeroxed the proper placement.....whew... it now has over 100k on it...

BTW, I had INTENSE quote me for a rebuild not long ago. $2295 is more than I'd like to spend right now. I think I could almost have the dealer put a new one in for that much.

Dealer says debris in valvebody can clog the valves. They can pull valvebody and repair for $850 labor + $50 in parts. Good to know.

Also, dealer can install brand new trans out the door for about $3000 with 5 year/100k warranty. I asked if it applied to my car with 300 hp worth of mods, manager says "OK". Hmm...

How long is Intense's warranty?

If you go the rebuild route, be sure to replace all the solenoids as cheap insurance. I have repaired (not rebuilt) auto trannies in the past and was told by a friend who worked at a tranny shop to always replace the solenoids. For my Dodge pick-up they were less than $220 for all 3 that I replaced inside the pan (OD, gov pressure, and ???). I had no OD in that truck at 90K miles and dealer could not find problem after 3 attempts and over $300 in diagnostic fees. I bought an OBD2 scanner for $125, found code (yes SES light was on when I took it to dealer) and replaced OD solenoid (and 2 others), changed fluid and filter all for about $375. Drove the truck to 180K miles with no tranny problems at all. Changed fluid and filter every 30K miles for the life of the truck.

you can buy my unit repair manual on 1998 gm transmissions and develop a new hobby of fixing auto trannies...

I wonder how hard it would be to take the valvebody off and clean it out? I'm going to check the manual when I get home. Maybe I can do this myself?

INTENSE's rebuild is warranted for 6 months.

AA wrote:

...........INTENSE's rebuild is warranted for 6 months.

'cause they know how they are used... Sorry to hear of your trans issues Aaron, hope you can fix for less than an arm and a leg.

pulling the valve body is easy...



just remove the bolts..but becareful..there are springs in there that hold pressure on the shift servos...

Got a P0742 DTC today, which set off the SES light. This mean TCC is "stuck on" instead of off (P0741). So it moved! That's good news.

Then I noticed the scanner showing I had TCC lock-up again. I tried braking, it unlocked, then cruise and it would lock up again. I must've engaged the solenoid 30 times on the drive home from work. If there was any debris stuck in there, I hope it's now freed itself after all of the activity.

I wonder if a flush would be a good idea?

Driving hard through the hills of KY yesterday, I noticed the smell of transmission fluid when I stopped. The car shifts and drives fine, and trans temps are pretty low 175-190F while driving. Fluid level was fine last I checked, and no leaks that I can see. Fluid changed 2 months ago. Anyone have an idea?

Other than TCC still not locking up, the only symptom I have is when the car is cold, the transmission seems to slip until after 10-20 secs, then the car moves fine, just like it used to.

I drove 400 miles today, and will try another 300 tomorrow. Wish me luck!

What, you came to KY and didn't drop by for a visit?

I'll wish you luck but there's nothing like being prepared when the worst rolls around.

Yeah, I'm near Lexington, out in the sticks. All the roads look the same out here, but it sure is fun to tear through them at 80 mph!

I have the the money in the bank for a new trans, but I was hoping to wait until after Christmas to spend it.

Have you pulled the vacuum line off of the transmission modulator to see if you might be burning some fluid?

dennycrane wrote:

Have you pulled the vacuum line off of the transmission modulator to see if you might be burning some fluid?

i think the 97+ models didn't use modulators. its not vacuum controlled.

dreww wrote:

dennycrane wrote:

Have you pulled the vacuum line off of the transmission modulator to see if you might be burning some fluid?

i think the 97+ models didn't use modulators. its not vacuum controlled.

Correct.

95-96 rivieras got the 4T60E
97+ rivierias got the 4T65E

Well, I got though Nov and Dec all right. Managed to add another 10k miles after the first sign of trouble. Current mileage: 151k+.

While driving to KY on Christmas Eve, I was crossing the Ohio River at about 90 mph, when I noticed RPM was a little higher than normal.. maybe 2800. I let off and saw 2500 at 65 mph, which is too high. soon it was 3kRPM at 45 mph... and then I was stopped. The car wouldn't move at all. Stupid me. Why was I driving 90 mph when I knew the trans wasn't 100%?

Popped the hood to find the fluid was cooked. Smelled pretty bad. After letting her cool down, I tried starting up, and to my surprise the car ran fine. Shifted through the gears and I was on my way. I decided to cruise at 65 mph to my girlfriend's parents' house 10 miles south of Cincinnati. No more problems on the way, thankfully.

Next day it was off to my parents for Christmas. I drove two hours into the KY sticks. As long as I kept my speed down, there was no problem. A couple times I was going up a hill and could feel it slipping, but I made it. My first priority was making it home for Christmas. Any other time I would've called AAA and had the car towed back home.

Wed, Dec 26th I drove home with no problems. It was cooler out now, so I think this helped a lot. Still, I knew the fluid was cooked, so stopped and bought a filter and fluid. Had to go to work that day. Hoping the car would make it to the weekend.

Thu, Dec 27th I had to work again. No time to change the fluid today, and that bugged me. Was driving home after work, and noticed a kind of scraping/grinding noise. I wasn't sure it was the trans at first, but then I felt it slip and buck a little. Then it made more noise, so shut her down on the side of the road, then started her up a minute later. The noise was less after I tried driving again. I eased her up to 60 mph and cruised to my GF's house. Sent Ed Morad an email.

Today I thought I'd change the fluid and see what kind of damage I'd done. I tried to drive to my place, and barely made it. No noises any more, but it wouldn't stay in gear for more than a couple minutes, then would slip. But if I stopped the car and restarted, I could drive a couple more miles and repeat the process. I started thinking the fluid change wasn't going to help. There was definitely something wrong, so called Aamco for a quote. They have a $100 off sale going, which is something, and estimated between $1500-$2000 for a rebuild, depending on what they saw.

Talked to Ed Morad. He isn't installing transmissions right now, only supplying them. He had a couple units with 90-120k miles. One unit with 80k would be in next week. Aamco was looking to be the better option for now.

Took the car in to Aamco. They drove it and then put it up. Dropped the pan. Fluid was near black. I was embarrassed as I explained what I'd done, driving the car 500 miles on burnt fluid. On the magnet were metal parts they described as "parts of gear teeth". So for now the diagnosis is looking grim. I don't expect it will be toward the low side of the estimate.

Good news is they should be done Monday or Tues. I can't afford to not have a car, so I'm willing to pay for it I guess. This is the first real setback with this car. I guess I can accept this would happen sooner or later. Maybe if it happened at any other time, I could've changed that fluid. Really bothers me that I didn't get to it. Probably could've gotten even more miles before the rebuild.

hmmm. I think I'll be getting that dex6 fluid, filter, shift kit very soon
A 1500-2000 dollar trans is out of the question for me right now.

Aaron, for that much money, how come you chose not to get a zzp, intense, or wbs trans?

I don't know if I would call failure at 151K+ of lead foot driving a set back. It's amazing it lasted that long.