Diary of a Dying Transmission

I got the Riv back yesterday. They said that for whatever reason, the valve body that they cleaned and re-installed was causing the solenoid to stick (this was the original problem that caused me to lose TCC lock-up). To solve, they replaced the valve body.

To answer the question asked earlier: how they knew about the modified PCM shifting tables, I think it was when they finished the work and took the car for a test drive. I'm guessing they put it into 3rd and could not get the TCC to lock. This is because I programmed it not to lock-up in 3rd gear. That explains how they figured it out.

After I set the TCC and shift pressures back to normal, I asked the builder what he thought about modifying these settings. His opinion was that it was bad to have the TCC unlocked for extended periods. He said, "these transmissions need TC lock." He recommended I keep it on in 3rd and 4th. He also said increasing shift pressures, changing shift points, and decreasing shift times were not bad to do.

So after getting the car, I drove it around all night, beating up on it as much as I could. Lots of launches, lots of high speed, a few 3-1 shifts. It passed all of my tests. Feels like new, which is good, but bad at the same time. I miss the firm, quick shifts. "Like new" really doesn't work for me any more. I figure after the 12k mile warranty is up, everything will go back to the way I had it.

I do plan to change fluid every 20k from now on instead of 40k as I used to.

As long as your original tranny lasted, I don't think his theory about the TC needing lock holds up. Besides, $2000 for a 150,000 miles of performance isn't a bad deal anyway.

I agree, Jack. I drove for 3 months with no TCC lock up, period. If I'd changed the fluid in time, I probably could've lasted longer. It sneaked up one me at the wrong time.

Btw, I asked the builder if I'd brought the car in back in October, at the first signs of trouble, what would be the cost? He said probably a little less because I could've kept my torque converter, but likely would've been in the $1700 range. The way I look at this, the weak parts were destroyed, and have now been replaced. I paid a bit more, but hopefully there is less to go wrong for a few more miles. In other words, glad we put in the new while we had the old out.

I lock up my converter earlier to keep fluid temps down and economy and torque up! (I think you and I discussed this when we both first got our tuners)

And I just got a report from my builder that my old transmission (with 80K miles and at least 30 track passes) was in near-perfect condition besides normal clutch wear... so I'm very happy with my settings. Glad to hear yours is working again!

Yes, I remember. It depends on how you drive, really. Torque is surely up when you are into boost and TC is locked. It has to be in order turn that 1:1 ratio under acceleration, but then you have to consider that stress has to go somewhere... to the bearings and other parts of the engine. I like the extra HP you get with RPM sa the TCC unlocks, and you notice the car moves faster as a result. Anyway, let me know where you're at in 150k+ miles.

Since I changed the 4th gear TCC unlock settings (just unlock, not the lock-up) 50k miles ago, and the problem seems to have resulted from my TCC solenoid sticking due to crud in the valve body, I'll set things back to the way they were once my warranty is up. Compared to my "performance" settings, the car feels like it's lethargic now. The only thing I'm going to do different this time is instead of turning 3rd gear TCC lock off, I'm going to make it release easier, like with 4th gear... Just in case I decide to drive around in 3rd through the mountains.

Do they have a way of knowing you messed with the stock specs? do they have a tech 2, and if they do, do they even know stock specs?

Aaron, although it's unethical, I would definitely restore your performance shift settings. Paying 2 stacks and being told that I can't have it set up the way it was would not fly for me. But I'd have to say with the lack of TC lockup you like, a nice big trans cooler could save you there.

quote: "Do they have a way of knowing you messed with the stock specs?"

As mentioned, they most likely knew about the PCM when they did a test drive in 3rd and noticed the TCC didn't lock. I got a phone call a couple days before they were done: "Did you happen to put a chip in the car that causes TCC to not lock up?" I didn't lie. I told them I could fix it, and I did.

I think they might have a Tech II, or some way to scan and delete codes. I do not think they are able to read the PCM program directly, nor do I think they know anything about how it actually works. They just knew something was different. You can obviously feel it when you drive the car.

quote: "although it's unethical, I would definitely restore your performance shift settings. Paying 2 stacks and being told that I can't have it set up the way it was would not fly for me."

I thought about that, but considered their 12-month warranty is also a 12k mile warranty, which for me is less than 6 months. I don't think leaving the TCC settings stock for 6 months is going to be that bad. I do plan to restore the trans pressures and shift speeds (aka performance shift) asap. Even the builder said this would not hurt the trans. TCC lock-up was the real issue that they required set back to OEM, to honor the warranty, so I will comply. If anything happens in the next 12k miles, I want my warranty to be valid, no questions asked. So, it will have performance shift, but the TC will try to stay locked in OD. I'll just tap the brake like I used to.

I will say this... The OEM shift settings suck worse than I imagined. You get used to this quick, firm shifting machine, and then go back to old-man's cruiser. What the crap? You can just feel the clutches wearing out as you drive.

quote: "But I'd have to say with the lack of TC lockup you like, a nice big trans cooler could save you there."

Okay... I drove 50k miles with the custom TC unlock settings, and I cannot stress how much I feel they had nothing to do with my transmission failure. I did not totally disable TCC lock-up, I only made it easier to exit lock-up, and I did disable it in 3rd gear. This never caused my trans fluid temps to rise, even in the summer months. Interesting how my trans failed in winter?

October of last year, some debris clogged my valve body, making the TCC solenoid stick. This could happen to any transmission. I do not believe it had anything to do with my TCC unlock settings. From that point on, I was driving with no TC lock-up at all - total fluid coupling 100% of the time. Going 90 mph for 2 hours in this state is what killed it, not the custom PCM program I set almost 2 years ago. I will take the blame for not changing the fluid at the first sign of trouble. I thought since I'd changed it 15k miles ago, I was good for a while... and I was wrong. It deteriorated so fast. Imo, not even a tranny cooler could've saved me here.

With the new trans.. and your tuner, what temps are you seeing once you've been driving say 20minutes of highway?

I would keep an eye on the various driving conditions and temps you see both summer and winter if considering a cooler. Then choose the best cooler (if needed) for your style.

Knowing your choices were limited at the time, I think you did pretty well for the level of work they did and having a 12K warranty. On a side note.. driving my old tired 175K trans to Ohio and having INTENSE put in one of everything including a gear change to 3.29's. When I got in the car and put it in gear I nearly had to turn it off and change my underwear at the difference. I'm still running all the factory settings.

Bill, I'm very envious. I had always wanted an INTENSE transaxle, but hadn't saved up quite as much as needed to do this when things let go. I also wasn't sure if I wanted to spend as much on the car having so many miles. If you don't mind me asking, how much $$$ did the INTENSE trans/install set you back? And how long ago was it put in? (INTENSE recently increased their installation rates by 60%)

Well..that's a little tough to say.

I saved enough to do the majority of things I wished. It didn't include one of everything. I was a GH on another forum at the time and when I arrived.. there was $1,700 in donations from other forum members waiting for me to add to my savings. In the end I went for the gear change, 245mm converter, LSD, hardened this, upgraded that and being a 97 most of my trans parts were in need of updating. (Major updates were pushed by GM in 2002/3). Then add to that an Aeroforce, Casper Timing Commander, Gatorback belt and an MPS system with extra pullies and I think the total was around $4,800

I do suggest that anyone wanting an INTENSE trans keep their eyes open with money saved for someone doing a demod. It's by far the best way to get the upgrades for a discount.

Found a pic of the 3rd gear sprag. Here's the stock one

Update: have now put 2k miles on the new transmission. So far, I can't complain. I've really flogged on it a bit, and it seems to be holding strong. Still using the stock TCC lock-up and fluid pressure settings, which has forced me to drive like a "typical Buick driver". I may go mad if I don't do something about this soon.

Worth mentioning, I popped the hood last Friday and noticed a sling of white/green grease coating my hood and surrounding parts of the engine bay. Took it to my local oil-changing crew to put it up on the lift. We could tell it was coming from the inner CV joint on the passenger side. A clamp had failed, which I thought might have something to do with the trans install last month. I knew I could do this job myself, but it was cold, and I didn't want to. Also, I thought maybe this could be Aamco's fault. Not sure, but possibly.

Next morning I took it to Aamco; had them take a look. I wanted to know if they thought it could be related. They didn't think so, but said "it's just a clamp, we can fix it". So after a few minutes of waiting, and I look back in the bay, and they've got the wheel off and the drive shaft pulled and out on the table! Surprised, I walked in and asked what was going on. They said the clamp had indeed failed, but wanted to be sure the boot was in good shape. Then they repacked with grease (w/ different color, smart), put on a new clamp, and reinstalled everything. Somehow, they didn't injure my center cap!

An hour later, the boss comes out and says it's almost finished, shop was closing at 1pm. Talked about the weather, lots of stories about his shop, which he had been at for 43 years. I'm thinking this guy is nice, but what's the bill going to be? Finally he says, "I have to charge you the price of the clamp. It'll be $10." I gave him $20 and said thanks. He didn't have to do that, but he did. I'm still not sure if that clamp failed because of the install, but it's a possibility. I think he thought the same. Fair enough.

So I currently have a front-end man (Wilson's), a performance shop (INTENSE), a body man (Lane & Kenny), and finally a transmission shop I can trust to do good work and be fair. I would hate to leave Columbus, OH and have to spend years making new connections like these. Just makes it nice when the job is a little more than you want handle yourself.

great story Aaron. Sometimes chain shops get you suprisingly above-chain expected service levels! I used to have a Maaco shop near me that actually did really good bodywork cheap. Then the shop manager (who had been there for 30 years) left and the place became just another Maaco. Truly disappointing.

I know this is rather old, but a bad TCC solenoid will not cause transmission failure. The TCC solenoid is an emissions object. It will cause slightly lower MPG, 1-2.

I put over 50k on my last STS with a bad TCC solenoid. Had a constant CEL but sold the car and it shifted great.

Quote :

a bad TCC solenoid will not cause transmission failure. The TCC solenoid is an emissions object. It will cause slightly lower MPG, 1-2.

For most shorter trips and regular driving, you can probably go many thousands of miles with no TCC lock-up. BTW, I think you loose more than 1-2 MPG without TCC lock-up. It's probably closer to 3-5 MPG lost in the 3800 V-6.

My TCC solenoid went out thousands of miles before the trans failed. In my case it was probably not the only cause, but it was the major contributor to the ultimate failure. I assumed like you that it was only an economy concern, so I did not consider something very important: heat.

You can drive normally without TCC lock-up, and have no issues for a long time, with one exception: very long trips (100+ miles) on warm days. With no TCC lock, the fluid slowly gets hotter and hotter until the it gets way too hot. This causes the fluid to lose its coupling properties, and likely some of its lubrication. Climbing hills or mountains in combination will accelerate the problem. My mechanic said the fluid was not brown, it was black. I'd changed the fluid 30k before it failed. The torque conv was blued from the intense heat.

So I now believe TCC solenoid failure can and will destroy your transmission, as it did in my case. The only way to combat the effects of the extra heat are a trans cooler and/or more frequent fluid changes, maybe every 5k miles depending on how many long trips you take, and if you are driving in hills/mtns - this can get old after a while. Instead, I decided to rebuild after getting as many miles out of mine as possible.

I had no other problems with my trans other than the TCC solenoid when it failed. Fluid was changed every 40k miles. Daily driven with spirit, but rarely raced. Never slipped at all, shifted perfect. It takes a lot of heat, but eventually you can cook the trans if you drive long distances without lock-up.

What about adding a cooler, if as Aaron said his failure was from overheating.? Would that not help extend the life of the trans.?

Another "secret" to transmission life is trying to limit wheelspin as much as possible, especially while going around corners. As obvious as it may sound, all i ever see is videos of burnouts and the like on lots of the 3800 boards.

L67 wrote:

Another "secret" to transmission life is trying to limit wheelspin as much as possible, especially while going around corners. As obvious as it may sound, all i ever see is videos of burnouts and the like on lots of the 3800 boards.

Those guys always seem to be the ones bragging about how many trans rebuilds they have done.

Transmission fluid temp and transmission life have long been known to go hand in hand. Add a transmission cooler if you are comfortable with plumbing high pressure lines, if not a pro should be able to do it for short money safely. There can be 200 psi in tranny cooler lines and a line slipping off at full temp is serious (think fire), so be careful and do it right.

Quote :

What about adding a cooler, if as Aaron said his failure was from overheating.? Would that not help extend the life of the trans.?

Let's understand that while heat is indeed bad, in my case (and imo many cases) the cause for that heat is the failed TC clutch solenoid, preventing lock-up during long cruises. Note that in both Albertj's and my instance, this was the reason for failure - in Albert's case he caught it early, in mine I decided to let it cook to a crisp. Either way, you pay for the rebuild eventually. But without TCC solenoid failure, heat is normal and shouldn't hurt the trans - as long as the fluid is kept good.

Also realize TCC solenoid failure has little or nothing to do with modding. It has more to do with keeping trans fluid clean, which is why I change mine every 25k miles (about once per year).

Letting your wheels spin is a different type of failure altogether. The proverbial "one-wheel burn-out" puts strain on and can break the spider gears inside the differential. This isn't really transmission failure, it's differential failure. I can say at 188k miles (150k of those being modded) I'm still on my original, stock differential - it has never been rebuild or modified, nor has it given me any trouble. Oh, and I've done plenty of burn-outs and wheel spins, but I don't do it everyday, and I don't do the one-wheel type if I can help it.

Great insight Aaron... One quick question, is the TC solonoid easily replaceable when having tranny fluid/filter change done? Seems that this could be one of those "ounce of prevention" v/s $2000 rebuild issues.

No, it is not that easy from what I know. I've heard it's possible to access the TCC without removal of the entire unit, but my transmission mechanics told me they would need to remove the unit ($1000 labor) to 'do the job right'. So I'm not 100% sure. Maybe our tranny experts can chime in here.

All solenoids are under left side cover.
Can be replaced without removing trans but require the removal of drivers side axle, etc to gain access to left side cover and all parts inside there.

Thanks, Rick. Also, note that when mine got stuck, they cleaned and/or replaced the solenoids, but then they stuck again less than a week later. The solution was to replace the entire valvebody with a new one. So it's not the solenoids themselves that fail, but dirt from the valvebody that clogs them up.