Write-Up: Lower Intake Manifold (LIM) Gaskets

Maybe not for everyone, but I've gotten my lines off multiple times using a small flathead screw driver. Just takes a little patience.

Karma wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

its hard to visualize "breaking through the passage" wish i could see that?....

I'm doing a LIM for hometown hero shortly, I'll get pics and post it in the appropriate form then.

lookin forward to that! thanks K

BMD wrote:

Gotcha guys . So once that spring is expanded, the line should just slide off? or will it need to be coaxed?

1. push line and rail together
2. insert fuel line tool
3. pull line off rail with the tool still in
4. done

97 park ave wrote:

1. push line and rail together
2. insert fuel line tool
3. pull line off rail with the tool still in
4. done

Thanks Tyler!

no problem buddy good luck

98riv wrote:

I replaced mine a few years ago and it wasn't too bad. Just time consuming. The gasket doesn't come with rtv so you will have to buy it. I removed the plastic vacuum lines from the tee and left the tee on the manifold. I have heard stories about the tee fitting breaking off in the manifold. Here is the thread that mentions some of the part numbers that you will need. https://rivperformance.editboard.com/parts-wanted-f23/part-number-listing-t45.htm. About half way through the thread you will find a post from me asking for part numbers. I was also replacing the pulleys at the same time, but all of the parts that I got are listed in that thread. I removed the throttle body when I changed my LIM gasket because I wanted to clean it. I would also change the valve covers now because it will be much easier access to the valve covers.

Thanks for the link 98Riv. Three questions...

Haven't found the P/N # for the large plastic elbow yet. ( yellow in pic )

Instead of a "T" coiming out of the manifold ( as in the pic below ), I have an elbow?! Is that only on a 96? Obviously that should be left alone aswell?



Valve cover gaskets- GM: 24503937 : Fel-Pro: VS 50465 R. Are these the revised valve cover gaskets, what are they made of?

i think thats the lim coolant elbow. if its plastic swap it out. they fail at the wierdest times...

97 park ave wrote:

BMD wrote:

Gotcha guys . So once that spring is expanded, the line should just slide off? or will it need to be coaxed?

1. push line and rail together
2. insert fuel line tool
3. pull line off rail with the tool still in
4. done

I would only add that the General says to rotate the fittings back & forth a bit and blow out any dirt that might be hiding in there before you separate them.

robotennis61 wrote:

i think that's the lim coolant elbow. if its plastic swap it out. they fail at the weirdest times...

Just saw this on a Bonneville forum:

Good ol' Dorman/HELP makes those elbows, #47065, and on the Dorman website it appears t actually be a pair... and they have the O-rings on them already, too. So, many parts stores probably have them in stock.

But what about the 'other' side of the alternator bracket? Now, if we only have to remove the 'generator' to do the LIM gaskets, and not it's bracket, it may be a moot point. But even looking at the factory diagrams & procedures, I'm not clear on whether there's another O-ring that goes to the head or the manifold, or even if, God forbid, there's another plastic elbow hiding back there! Maybe that is why they package 2 elbows together? Perhaps Rick or Deekster can chime in on what ELSE there is behind the alternator bracket/coolant passage/tensioner assembly...


(BTW, someone on that site had gone to the dealer and confirmed that for LIM gaskets,
The 89017825 is for 1997 and up Supercharged (VIN 1) engines,
The 89017816 is for 1997 and up Non-Supercharged (K) engines.)

Good observation Mark, are you going to take off the alternator and brackets if there is no second elbow?

Stil wondering about the valve cover gaskets.

GM: 24503937
Fel-Pro: VS 50465 R.
Are these the revised valve cover gaskets, what are they made of?

BMD wrote:

Thanks for the link 98Riv. Three questions...

Haven't found the P/N # for the large plastic elbow yet. ( yellow in pic )

Instead of a "T" coiming out of the manifold ( as in the pic below ), I have an elbow?! Is that only on a 96? Obviously that should be left alone aswell?



Valve cover gaskets- GM: 24503937 : Fel-Pro: VS 50465 R. Are these the revised valve cover gaskets, what are they made of?

The coolant elbow can be picked up from http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=370

On the 96's our vac lines are arranged differently than the 97+ due to the vac controlled transmission. We have just an elbow where the 97+ have a T. However, a T will work on a 96 should you ever need to free up another vac port on the blower or loose one in a swap.

As for the VC gaskets, i dont know what changes were made, but if the prices are the same, go with the updated version. There was a recall for other 3800's to have the gaskets replaced. If you get the elbows from zzp, they also have the proper gaskets for $14 each or $27 a pair.

Thanks for the info Mathew. Does anyone know what the revised valve covers look like or are made of so that when I get 'em I know if they are indeed the new ones? Also, the comments by the other GTP forum members are that you should change *both* plastic elbows. I only see one on our cars. Is there another one somewhere as Eldo wondered?

Also Bryan R from GTp wrote ...

"I forget what the specs were on torque, so I can edit this post later. But the intake was something like 12 pound ft, and the supercharger 17 pound ft or something like that. I'll double check later...

When you go to test it... Make sure you put the key in run, but do not start the engine. Let it sit like this for 5-10 seconds. Than turn off, and do this one more time. Service manual said to do this to repressurize the fuel lines. This is also the time to check for fuel leaks at the fuel lines over the S/C.

I scared myself when I went to start the car after pressurizing the fuel lines, because the car wouldn't start, but the car just needed to work the air-bubbles out of the fuel rail or something. After cranking for a few seconds, I let the car rest for about a minute. Then tried again, and it started.... Tho it ran VERY rough, and was shaking. Probably working air out of the system, as I shut it off, and restarted, and it ran as smooth as butter. "

Is all that about right? Should I expect the car to do that once this repair is done??

Yes. It's about right. Here is the tightening sequence for the LIM....



LIM bolts are 11 ft/lbs + add threadlocker.
S/C bolts are 17 ft/lbs no threadlocker

Any time you disconnect a fuel line, the car may stumble and/or hesitate when you try to restart it.
DO NOT forget to change your oil before you start the car. Coolant is going to get into the oil when you take the LIM off. Again, CHANGE THE OIL BEFORE STARTING THE CAR! (sry caps, but I can't stress it enough).

Thanks Scott, perfect pic too man! Do you know what the revised valve covers look like or are made of so that when I get 'em I know if they are indeed the new ones?

Revised valve covers? I'm not familiar with that. Never had to replace any.

I thought there was a recall on our OEM valve covers caused they leaked?

No. There was a recall on the gasket and the spark plug wire retainer on the front cover only. AND, it was only certain years/makes. All I had to do on those recalls when I was at the dealer was remove the plastic wire retainer, and replace the VC gasket and o-rings on the bolts (S/C only). The recall was basically for the plug wire retainer though. The non S/C cars only got the retainer removed. Apparently it held oil/dirt which would cause the fire.

I just did a recall search on your car, and it's showing that yours doesn't apply. It was only for specific years and Vin #'s.

And if I remember correctly, the "other cars" recall involved the front exhaust manifold heat shield/shroud. Oil could leak out the front valve cover, and run down between the exhaust manifold and heat shield/shroud. Since Riviera don't have that, it did not apply to them.

Here is a link to an article with a picture of a 3800 Series II engine equipped with above mentioned shield/shroud.
http://tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/73674/engine_series_servicing_tips_for_the_gm_3800_series_ii_engine.aspx

Cheers

BMD wrote:

Also, the comments by the other GTP forum members are that you should change *both* plastic elbows. I only see one on our cars. Is there another one somewhere as Eldo wondered?

I know mine has both elbows, as I did the revised, updated LIM gasket job last Spring. But mine is a '99. According to Intense, the second elbow is on '99 + cars.

http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IR&Product_Code=GMH-CEL&Category_Code=GH

BMD wrote:

Thanks for the info Mathew. Does anyone know what the revised valve covers look like or are made of so that when I get 'em I know if they are indeed the new ones? Also, the comments by the other GTP forum members are that you should change *both* plastic elbows. I only see one on our cars. Is there another one somewhere as Eldo wondered?

I just used the Fel-Pro gaskets as ordered by year, make and model. They were the right ones and are re-usable to some degree. I had replaced the Valve Cover gaskets back when I did the rocker arm swap last year and was able to reuse the VC gaskets again after that.
The Help package that I mentioned a few pages ago and more recently by Eldo has the One and only One plastic elbow that you will need for the LIM job. Just match up the one you need from the 2 pack and your good to go.

Thanks for the elbow info guys. Rick, I think I will get those Valve Cover gaskets aswell.

I picked up the Fuel Disconnect Tool, the Permatex Copper RTV, The Plastic Elbow "Help" Package, Thermostat Housing Gasket and "O" Ring and ordered the Felpro Supercharger Gasket Kit. Didn't get a chance to order the LIM Gasket from GM yet though.

One more question, and I think I am all set. When re-installing the fuel injectors, do you install them as a unit into the rail, and then into the manifold? Or do you install them individually into the manifold, then install the rail and connect each connector?

BMD wrote:

Thanks for the elbow info guys. Rick, I think I will get those Valve Cover gaskets aswell.

I picked up the Fuel Disconnect Tool, the Permatex Copper RTV, The Plastic Elbow "Help" Package, Thermostat Housing Gasket and "O" Ring and ordered the Felpro Supercharger Gasket Kit. Didn't get a chance to order the LIM Gasket from GM yet though.

One more question, and I think I am all set. When re-installing the fuel injectors, do you install them as a unit into the rail, and then into the manifold? Or do you install them individually into the manifold, then install the rail and connect each connector?

I installed the fuel injectors on the fuel rail first and then into the manifold. Make sure you have some extra coolant on hand. You will lose some when you remove the intake manifold. I used a turkey baster to remove as much coolant from the intake manifold as possible, but I still spilled some coolant. If I was going to do it again, I would drain some of the coolant from the radiator and then remove the intake manifold. You will spill less coolant in the engine that way. Either way, I would still change the oil immediately. I used some cheap oil and poored a quart or two through the engine to help flush out the coolant and crud. I still changed the oil again after a hundred or so miles for extra protection. May have been overkill, but oil is cheap and I wanted to be safe than sorry. Don't forget the fuel injector o-rings, throttle body gasket and blue thread locker.

I also found that installing them to the rail and then installing the complete assy into the engine to be the easiest way.
Just make sure that if any of the retainers that hold the o-rings on are missing and/or if you broke any during disassembly that you pay attention to the o-rings as you fit the rail back to the engine and seat the new o-rings with a bit of force until they are seated.
You can re-use the injectors with broken and missing retainers, I did, without any problems.
The retainers are of some kind of plastic or phenolic and get brittle with age, but don't worry if any are missing. They are there only to help install the injector without an o-ring trying to fall off.
What I found to be the case was the o-rings fit very snug on the injectors and don't have any tendency to fall off.
No worry's.

BMD wrote:

Instead of a "T" coiming out of the manifold ( as in the pic below ), I have an elbow?! Is that only on a 96? Obviously that should be left alone aswell?

I would leave it alone if possible. I think you should be able to pull the line out of it and leave the elbow in place.

I know this sounds obvious, but after you get everything in place make sure you check for fuel leaks. You shouldn't have a problem if everything is seated correctly.