PF 52 oil filter?

I saw where some of youse guys are using the PF52 oil filter on the Riv.
It oviously contains a few more ounces of oil and I would guess the larger size would give more/better filtration.
Any other benefits?

Bert

That about sums it up. Maybe a little extra oil cooling while it's outside the engine?

If you use Mobil1 I think it's the M101 filter...

I'd think just increased filtering capacity.

pf52 and 5qts.
i dont know about the other years but my 96 manual specs 4.5qts of oil with the stock filter, most people assume its 5qts and then over fill it.

I've actually been told 4.75 qts with the PF52. I use the PF52, and just changed my oil. I let it run out til it is barely dripping out. I also raise and lower the floor jack to get as much out as possible. When I refilled, and checked later, 4.5 qts put it right at the Full line. I'd go 4.5 initially, run/drive a bit, let it sit then recheck. Add if needed to reach Full.

I've never used the PF52. I don't change my own oil, so it's hard to explain to the shop why I'm doing it, so I've never bothered. Also, I've read about a clearance issue with the W-Bodies that could cause damage to the motor if dropped without knowing the PF52 is being used. Don't know if this is true with G-Bodies, but it has always turned me off from this mod.

AA wrote:

I've never used the PF52. I don't change my own oil, so it's hard to explain to the shop why I'm doing it, so I've never bothered.

i was gonna say WHAT THE HECK man....... but then i took a look at it and for how much autozone, checkers and pepboys charge for oil and filter now it comes to well over 25-30 bucks, when you can easily get it done for LESS than 20 at a jiffy lube or something............. i can change my own for 13.67$ everytime but thats because im in a auto tech program with a MINI napa inside ...............

But how much do you pay for an oil change?

nothing, i have always changed my own oil on everyone of the rides

palermocorey90 wrote:

nothing, i have always changed my own oil on everyone of the rides

how much did you pay for that oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AA wrote:

I've never used the PF52. I don't change my own oil, so it's hard to explain to the shop why I'm doing it, so I've never bothered. Also, I've read about a clearance issue with the W-Bodies that could cause damage to the motor if dropped without knowing the PF52 is being used. Don't know if this is true with G-Bodies, but it has always turned me off from this mod.

Aaron, the Riv has absolutely no clearance issues with the PF52. TONS of room for it. I easily remove them by hand, easy to get leverage. Not saying that's any reason to use them, just that space isn't an issue.

I don't always change my own oil, though I am on the Riv. Gotta time it so I change as late in the fall as temps allow, so I can next do it when it starts to warm a bit in late winter. No heat in my garage. I change our van's oil myself except in the middle of winter.

Good to know there isn't a clearance issue.

I drive enough that oil gets changed about every 6-8 weeks. Whenever I get a haircut, it's time to change the oil. It's just an inconvenience to have to change oil myself that often. It would take me almost 2 hours to lift the car, drain, and lower. Sears charges around $25 and has it done in half the time.

I agree, it's hard to beat the convenience of a shop changing your oil, as long as you can trust the place you use. I've had a dealer change oil while I had my ex-truck in for other work, and they just let it run out all over the undercarriage. What a f'n mess. I saw it dripping on the driveway when I got it home. Took it back and they steamcleaned it free, but tried to tell me there's nothing they could do about it on those trucks. Total BS, I never had a problem putting a couple rags under the oil filter first. Another shop changed oil on a co-worker's vehicle, and a few minutes after leaving the shop, his oil light came on. Stopped right away, and found the oil filter hadn't been tightened....

I believe that using the larger filter can offer better flow if you increase the oil pressure in the car. Unlike using a racing grade filter that has a lower filtration rate, this is an uncompromising upgrade. Also more filter surface area gives more lenience in changes. Not that I suggest less frequent oil changes, but using a very high grade synthetic oil like Amzoil supposedly makes the oil filter the limitation in how long the oil can last. Amzoil is proven to safely run for 15,000 miles (considerably more than Mobil 1 and royal purple). The limitation at that point is the filter clogging. Using a filter thats larger enormously helps there. Again, I would never say changing your oil at that long of an interval is ok on anything, much less an old, high mileage supercharged car. I'm just throwing that out there. By 15,000 miles, most new cars will have burned half or more of the oil away

I use the PF-52 on all my cars and my girlfriend's 98 GS, though only 1 calls for it from the factory (the roadmaster). I bought a crate of 60 PF-52s off ebay for 100$ shipped to my door. I like them. They have the antidrainback valve and offer a larger filtration area.

It really does fit perfectly in the riv, no clearance issues.

In my roadmaster, I run german castrol syntec 0W-30 for 7-10k miles (all winter). I swap the filter midway. I think you just waste money swapping synthetic every 3k miles.

AA - you have to jack up the car to change the oil?!?!


When I change oil I just put a small tarp down and lay on it. I can reach the drain plug and oil filter without any trouble and do not need to jack up the car. I use the PF47 or equivalent filter from Delco, Purolator, Bosch, Mobil1 or WIX (no Fram) and synthetic oil. A PF52 would be fine, I might start using them. I put in 4 qts synthetic 10W30 (usually Mobil1) and 1/2 quart Rotella T synthetic for diesels (Because I think the Rotella T is the slipperiest stuff this side of Chicago). Don\'t use it alone though, 'cause in my experience it runs out (not just seeps) past my seals, but the Mobil1 (and Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline synthetics) don't. (If you want to try the Rotella alone, no problem - it quits seeping when you change it out). Adding Rotella in an oil change, well, I think it's like vermouth in a martini - after a certain (relatively small) amount more is not better.

So -for the newbies- about this oil/filter change.

At the parts store, beyond the obvious you might want a plastic oil filter wrench (see below), a magnet pick-up tool (to fish your drain plug out of hot oil) and some inexpensive nitrile gloves - the purple ones that come like 10 in a bag or the black 'chemical' gloves that look like kitchen/dishwashing gloves. The black ones, if you wash 'em off after use (like washing your hands but use dish liquid and keep the gloves on) after the oil change, you will be able to re-use them for several oil changes. You may also want a drain plug with a little magnet in it - although I admit, I had one of those for a while and did not get any metal shavings on it so I put the OEM plug back a few changes ago. If you have that or another aftermarket drain plug, you need to get a replacement gasket or crush washer for it, too. There is a remote chance you will need a gasket scraper, essentially a single-edge razor or box knife in some sort of a handle. And you might want a permanent parker (Sharpie) or paint pen.

Back to the oil change... Helps if you park on a flat surface (maybe very slight uphill grade) and turn the front wheels to the right, all the way to lock, before you start. Get an actual oil drain pan, most all of them will *just* slide under the Riv - then to start the change, put down the tarp you plan to crawl around on, lay on it looking up toward the undercarriage and find the oil pan drain and oil filter on the passenger side of the engine, not that far from the back of that front wheel. Loosen the oil pan drain bolt just until oil starts to drip. Then slide the pan under with the back edge about 6-8 inches behind the drain plug... adn use the wrench to remove the plug, so you don't get burned by hot oil.

Optionally - and be careful not to get burned if your oil is warm or hot: while wearing oil resistant gloves (again, the cheap purple nitrile ones work fine) unscrew that drain bolt rest of the way with fingers, kind of spin it out so you can avoid the hot oil. If you can\'t grab the bolt without getting burned with the hot oil, just let it drop into the drain pan, it won\'t get lost that way.



Oil will drain, while it is draining you can crank off the oil filter. My hands are pretty strong, usually no trouble taking off the old filter or cranking down the new one enough with my hands, and the gloves help my grip. If you want a wrench, consider the Hopkins 10617 (kind of requires a ratchet or breaker bar though) or the one I use, which is here:

http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=API-100-120

I bought mine at an Ames store, years ago, not from Geno\'s. As you can see (if you click the link) it\'s a plastic cap looking gadget that will slip over the end of most any oil filter, if you need more grip. It has a socket wrench fitting in the end, which I\'ve never used because the gadget alone gives such grip for my hands. And it\'s just the thing for spinning a hot oil filter off without burning yourself, I think. Anyway - remove that oil filter.

By the way, if your oil filter is not too hot and you\'re wearing those nitrile gloves, just unscrew the filter with your hands. It should be tough to turn at first, but once you have backed it off about 1/4 to 1/2 turn it should (literally) spin off.

Look at the filter to see that the filter gasket came off with the filter (if it did not get back under the car and peel it off. You may need to clean off the mount wih a gasket scraper), then set the filter hole-down on the edge of the drain pan to drain. Most drain pans except the absolute cheapest ones have a ledge or other design feature to let you do this.

THEN go topside and remove the oil filler cap. Peek under the car to make sure oil is draining into the pan and not onto the ground, because when you remove the cap the oil draining may speed up. Slide the pan a little if you have to.

By now the oil filter mount and the drain should be dripping slowly if at all. Fish the drain bolt out of the oil (with the pickup tool or at least the other glove on, natch), wipe it and the drain hole clean with an appropriate shop rag. If you are using the factory plug, just reinstall it. If you are using an aftermarket plug you may need a new plug gasket or copper crush washer, which you already got at the auto part store when you got your oil filter, right? It's best practice to use a new one, however I find that I can re-use a crush washer once if I flip it over.

Anyway, reinstall the bolt to the torque spec (tight enough not to leak without stripping the threads or messing up the oil pan). Wipe off the oil filter mounting area (with a shop rag) again making sure the mount is undamaged and the OLD gasket is not stuck to it (this happened to me only once, it is unlikely but a real PITA if you miss it).

Write either the current mileage, like "L/C 123,000 MI", or the date/mileage you plan to do the next change, like "C/B 135,000 OR mm/dd/yy" on the crown of the new filter, then put a little fresh oil on the new oil filter\'s gasket. If you have the room to work and you can hold the filter so it does not spill, consider pouring some new oil into the filter before you install it, your engine will get oil a little quicker if you do. Anyway, spin that new filter onto the mount. After the gasket just contacts the mount, crank the new filter down about a turn.

The old filter should be pretty well drained by now. Pick it up with your gloved hand, and look at it one last time to be sure the gasket came off with it (you should have already caught this! if not you have to remove the new filter, then remove the old gasket from the block with a gasket scraper as described above). Assuming the gasket came off with the filter (it usually does), if you are wearing the cheapie purple nitrile gloves you can use your other hand to pull the cuff of the glove up and over the filter. Wha-la, you have bagged the drippy messy filter. Tie a knot in the glove... If you are using the re-usable (black) gloves, then just use, say, a plastic shopping bag to wrap the old filter. anyway, after you glove or bag the filter, put the whole mess in the box the new filter came in and dispose properly...

With the new filter on and the drain plug bolt re-installed, put in the rest of your 4.5 quarts of fresh oil. Do Not Overfill The Oil! You are done if the oil level is above the 'add a quart' and below the 'full' mark. If you used the PF52, you need maybe an additional pint of oil. Put the filler cap back on. Look to see if anything is dripping (should not be). If not, set parking brake and start engine, and after 5-10 seconds look under the car at the oil filter and drain bolt. Watch for about 1/2 minute. Any drips? if no, good! Turn off the engine, wait a moment (about 30 sec. - 1 minute) then check the oil level. Again, you are done if the oil level is above 'add a quart' and below 'full.' And if you have a little time on your hands, lube your door hinges and locks now.

If you followed instructions but you have new drips, then you have a problem (filter or plug too loose, cross threaded or stripped) beyond the scope of this note and you need to fix it or or get it fixed.

Take care out there.

Albertj

I also have no trouble reaching the drain plug w/o jacking the car up, but when it's time to put the new filter on, I like to get under and make sure the mating surface is clean of old oil, and it's a heck of a lot easier to hit your target when you can see it.

BTW, I'm about to ship off an oil sample to Blackstone, will post their results when I get them. I changed RP 5W30 at 3500 miles this time, after driving in harsh winter conditions before this change. I'm thinking this time will go 5k, unless winter drags out here. This also depends on what Blackstone results are, I'm also having them do a TBN test, which checks for remaining additive levels.

I use the NAPA 1036 (WIX) version of the 52. When I was young I would pay, now old and have money I do it myself.

I just changed my oil and used the PF-52. I was able to pour an entire 5 quart jug in, then needed an extra 1 quart bottle.

AA wrote:

I just changed my oil and used the PF-52. I was able to pour an entire 5 quart jug in, then needed an extra 1 quart bottle.

6 qts?
the factory fill is 4.5qts and then add .5qts for the longer filter and you should be at, or slightly above full. are you sure it was a 5qt jug and not the gallon jug? i've made the mistake before of getting the gallon jug thinking "oh this must be the perfect 5 qt amount", then got home and realize 1 gal=4qts and had to run back out.

Hey Aaron - when I add oil myself what works for me is to get the oil level between the bottom and the middle of the OK range on the dipstick.

When putting in oil it does not hit the pan immediately, where the dipstick measures it. Especially if the oil is cold (below say 120 deg. F).

I wonder if you had a 4Qt jug.

Albertj

Yep guys, that's what happened. I used the 4 quart jug thinking it was 5. With all 5 quarts in, it's right at full on the dipstick.

For those of you following these posts - it's REAL important not to overfill the oil. When you overfill it, the oil tends to foam up because if there is enough sitting around the crankshaft will churn it. After a while churning, like on a highway cruise, the oil will become foamy. Problem with foamy oil is that it does not pump well at all through a car's oil pump.

Also, remember that the closer you keep the oil to the 'full' mark, the better job the oil can do to help cool bearings and suspend contaminants.

Finally, just for grins. One 'shadetree analysis' of engine oil is to put a drop of it on water. Point is that the more oxidized your oil is, the farther and faster that drop will spread on the water. To see the difference - in your plentiful spare time, get a couple disposable drinking cups of clean water. Then put a drop of new oil onto water in one cup and see what it does. Next, pull the dipstick from your car, and dribble a drop of oil onto the other clean water - the more quickly the used oil spreads on the water, the more oxidized and contaminated it is. That is, oxidation and contamination cause oil to lose its interfacial tension, and so the contaminated oil drop won't stay in a bead on water like the new oil, it will spread.

Albertj

I just changed the oil today from Mobil 1 7500 syn-blend, at 5,000 miles, to the new Castrol Edge full-syn, 15,000-mile stuff, which I'll change at 10,000. I'll say one thing, for a super-synthetic 10-30, it sure poured like a regular 30 weight... $9.50 a quart, but with an introductory $3/qt rebate.

After much study, I also upgraded from the little bitty Fram filter to a Wix version of the Delco PF52.
[ The versions made by Wix with larger filtering area are the Wix 51036 / Napa Gold 1036 / CarQuest 85036 or B4011]
It DOES turn out that Fram, which I've been using for 20+ years, scores toward the bottom of independent tests... Not only do their check-valves suck unless you buy the ToughGuard, but the WIX/Napa/Carquest filter has over 50% more surface area.

EDIT: I had an an interesting link here about an in-depth oil filter study, but alas, it's gone...

I didn't check the oil level for about an hour after running, and it was 1/4-quart over full with 5 quarts... If I'd checked is immediately, like at a gas station, it would probably have been about right, and with that expensive, PIA windage tray/pan gasket I'm not going to worry about an extra 1/2-pint.

Oh, and to revisit a debate we had a few months ago, I put my foot to the floor with the key off, then cranked the motor until I got oil pressure. I had to do four 10-second cranks before the oil light went out, and the injectors stayed off until the last crank when I released the throttle after I got oil pressure...

I use only AC Delco or Mobil 1. And the PF52 or equivelant - you can look it up as a '98 S10 pickup with a 4.3. Same threads and gasket, bigger capacity.