78,000 miles and the transmission has not been serviced...

The wifes 99 Riv has 78,000 miles on it and as far as I know the transmission has never been serviced.
Looking and smelling of the fluid on the dipstick it shows no indications of being burnt.
So, I plan on changing the strainer and refilling tomorrow.

As long as the pan gasket does not tear when I drop the pan I plan on just leaving the original gasket.

Thanks for any tips.

The coolant in this car has never been flushed/refilled either, I'm skeered to change the coolant.

Bert

I think you're all right changing it at 80k as long as you've not had any problems yet. Do it again at 100k, or at least 120k.

Change that coolant asap! It should be done at least every 5 years.

1) Does anyone know if the standard factory fill for a 4T65E was synthetic?

2) if you change your mind, Bert, consider a powerflush and fill with the new tranny fluid, Dexron-VI. See:

http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/transmissions/vehicle_transmissions.jsp

Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRON® VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids, and it's backward compatible with the older turbohydramatic (4TXXX, 6TXXX, 4LXXX, 6LXXX) transmissions. When I had my tranny flushed and filed a couple mnths ago, dealer used the new fluid. (for what they charge, they better...) At a dealer that has stock of the old fluid you may have to ask for it, though. And you can buy it at CarQuest among other places to do it yourself. GM says:

"Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRON® VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids."

and

"Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949 it has been periodically necessary to upgrade the specification. This upgrading process ensures that available service fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory fill fluid performance. It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON®-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON®-VI fluid, i.e. DEXRON®-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON®-VI ATF. DEXRON®-III fluids should not be used for these applications where the owners manual recommends the use of DEXRON®-VI. GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

and also

"All DEXRON®-III licenses expire at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date GM will only support the use of DEXRON®-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in DEXRON®-III applications” or similar wording should be avoided. DEXRON®-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications."

See also:

www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/transmissions/DEXRON_VI_Service_Fill_Release_30NO07.doc

Albertj

AA wrote:

I think you're all right changing it at 80k as long as you've not had any problems yet. Do it again at 100k, or at least 120k.

Change that coolant asap! It should be done at least every 5 years.

Thanks, I will start another thread and try and gather info on changing the coolant...

Bert

Thanks for the reply.

I guess I could check with the dealer and see if they recommend the Dexron-VI.

But if it was originally synthetic fluid. I assume it will mix with the conventional fluid that is still in the torque converter.

Thanks for the tips.

Bert

albertj wrote:

1) Does anyone know if the standard factory fill for a 4T65E was synthetic?

2) if you change your mind, Bert, consider a powerflush and fill with the new tranny fluid, Dexron-VI. See:

http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/transmissions/vehicle_transmissions.jsp

Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRON VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids, and it's backward compatible with the older turbohydramatic (4TXXX, 6TXXX, 4LXXX, 6LXXX) transmissions. When I had my tranny flushed and filed a couple mnths ago, dealer used the new fluid. (for what they charge, they better...) At a dealer that has stock of the old fluid you may have to ask for it, though. And you can buy it at CarQuest among other places to do it yourself. GM says:

"Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRON VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids."

and

"Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949 it has been periodically necessary to upgrade the specification. This upgrading process ensures that available service fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory fill fluid performance. It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON-VI fluid, i.e. DEXRON-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON-VI ATF. DEXRON-III fluids should not be used for these applications where the owners manual recommends the use of DEXRON-VI. GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

and also

"All DEXRON-III licenses expire at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date GM will only support the use of DEXRON-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in DEXRON-III applications” or similar wording should be avoided. DEXRON-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications."

See also:

www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/transmissions/DEXRON_VI_Service_Fill_Release_30NO07.doc

Albertj

I have to disagree with albert on this one. I've seen many transmissions have big issues not too long after a powerflush. Especially on these cars, the 4T65E has those damn solenoids that are sooo sensitive to dirt. I would just drop the pan and change the filter, and do it again sooner (once a year is a good guideline).

As far as the fluid is concerned, it was not originally synthetic, and there again, I don't see a need unless you are regularly towing, plus you change it annually.

Also, when changing the filter in this pan, be careful with the little adapter piece. It is hard to get out and install. Usually you need to destroy the old one to get it out, if you are lucky you'll be able to wiggle it out side to side with pliers and get it down. Otherwise, it's crush it inwards with a screwdriver and hammer, then pull out with pliers.

Actually, I agree - success does depend a lot on who does the powerflush and how. My dealer (who also sells caddys) for whatever reason obtained a relatively large robogizmotron that does a very good job. I have heard horror stories about power flushes, though.

Derek offered a great pointer about the adapter; also, if you get the filter from NAPA I think it comes with a new pan gasket, you could ask.

Albertj

I wouldn't powerflush it either. Do get the filter kit that includes a new gasket. Don't rely on the used one not breaking.

Don't forget: don't suspend the pan by only a few bolts. That's a leading cause of bent pans and leaks.

the standard stuff was just regular dexron III.

DO NOT flush the tranny fluid....I did it a year ago at around 85K miles (with no transmission problems) and since that time the transmission has been getting worse, it began slipping into overdrive not too long after the fluid flush and at this point overdrive is gone as well as it beginning to slip sometimes in other gears. When pulling codes on my car, 2 of them were transmission related. I now have 101K on it, and in the roughly 15K miles since the flush, I've lost 2 transmission solenoids and overdrive.

SC95Riv wrote:

DO NOT flush the tranny fluid....I did it a year ago at around 85K miles (with no transmission problems) and since that time the transmission has been getting worse, it began slipping into overdrive not too long after the fluid flush and at this point overdrive is gone as well as it beginning to slip sometimes in other gears. When pulling codes on my car, 2 of them were transmission related. I now have 101K on it, and in the roughly 15K miles since the flush, I've lost 2 transmission solenoids and overdrive.

That kind of story is the reason I am nervous about servicing the trans at all, it works fine and the fluid looks fine but a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do....

I am skeered of the powerflush...
Long story shortened, I saw four trucks loose transmissions within just a few days of being flushed. That was several years ago and I am sure the technology and procedures has improved dramatically, especially at a dealer.

Thanks for the tips.

Bert

I had a flush done at 80k. No problems at all for another 65k miles. I don't believe flushing is bad for transmissions. It's only "bad" when you don't properly maintain one, or you don't know the history on a high mileage car. Crud in the valvebody can built up over time... if you let it. Flushing can loosen this debris, causing problems.

I plan on flushing mine after 20k miles are on the new unit, and again every 40k miles. This "flush is bad" myth must be debunked!

Ok, got that project done, not too bad but if I knew of a shop that I could trust to do it right and not screw it up I would have taken it to them to be done...

I had the pan gasket that came with the filter(ATP) and a cork gasket that was leftover from another car, neither of these replacement gaskets had small enough bolt hole locations to retain the gasket to the pan during installation.

I was thinking the bolts that retain the pan of the Regal and the PA were both larger and would retain the gasket to the pan, if that is indeciperable...

So anyhow, I reused the factory gasket which has the metal insert and stays in place better.

Thanks for all the replies.
Bert

Just to add, I believe my transmission is all original and it has 144k miles on it. Still shifts like a dream, nice and tight unlike many other cars that are mushy on the shifts.

i also wanted to do a tranny flush but,my cuz who is a tranny specialist warned against it at 115000 miles. he sed nothing good would come of it. he has seen where tranny flushes loosens the friction material from older clutch plates. but he also added, that flushes on new cars is ok. and once a year after that. he beleives in adding lube guard too. for awhile you could only get it tranny suppliers,but i think it can be bought commercially now. each brand of car has its own formula. so get the 1 for gm. the bottles are color coded. i think the gm bottle is red,but dont quote me on it!

I changed the fluid (6 qts) and filter at 90k miles and welded a drain plug to my stock pan. I now change the fluid (5 qts) every 15k miles (twice a year for me). This was highly recommended by a Ford mechanic I know for my wife's 2003 Escape 4x4. It started vibrating badly on the 3-4 upshift at 60k miles. I change the fluid in it (4 qts) every other oil change or 6k miles. Vibrations went away. BTW, the newer Fords use no tranny filter or even screen. Anything to save a buck
I deal with all the major manufacturers in my line of business, automotive engineer, and Ford is by far the cheapest when it comes to sourcing parts.

AA wrote:

Crud in the valvebody can built up over time... if you let it. Flushing can loosen this debris, causing problems.

AA you are aware of my tranny problem. I highly doubt that my tranny was ever flushed before i did it at 144K miles, i never changed the filter or dropped the pan when doing that............. Do you think its worth a shot at droppin my pan and draining the fluid putting in a new filter and fluid then attempting to drive it to see progress and then go and get it flushed and then drop the pan and change the filter and put in new fluid??? or is it not worth the 70-80 bucks???

Sorry to hear you didn't change the filter with the flush. I probably wouldn't have done the flush with that many miles, either. But honestly, I don't think that's what caused your problem. It could be, but yours doesn't shift into gear at all. Never heard of a flush causing that.

I would not waste the money on filter and fluid now. Just get the rebuild done and all will be replaced.

AA wrote:

Sorry to hear you didn't change the filter with the flush. I probably wouldn't have done the flush with that many miles, either. But honestly, I don't think that's what caused your problem. It could be, but yours doesn't shift into gear at all. Never heard of a flush causing that.

I would not waste the money on filter and fluid now. Just get the rebuild done and all will be replaced.

It would just be wierd to spend 1150 on a rebuild IF it is just really clogged BUT unfortunately YOU PROLLY RIGHT:|

you can try a filter, I can't believe you would flush the thing and not change the filter. You break loose so much crap during a flush your filter is bound to be clogged. If you are lucky you can drive it another 6 months if that gets it rolling again.

Always drop the pan when servicing the trans. Otherwise you won't see what's in there. Clean the bottom of the pan until you find the magnet. Clean that too!