DHP-Power tuner,Rockers or PEMS.

I have 500 .00 to spend ,which one of these would make the most sense getting.I would love getting ALL but budget only allows for 1. I am leaning toward PEMs .Any input would be greatly appreciated !
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Another option: Scan software. It doesn't make your car faster, but it can tell you when it's slower, and why.

PowrTuner requires a certain level of technical patience to use. Not everyone is going to be able to pick it up and go. But if you have the time to learn, it's one of the best mods you can do, imo. It's especially a good idea if you plan to take this modding game a few steps further down the road.

Rockers are great because they let you have that upper RPM horsepower that stock motors lack. It's a mod that you will really notice. When that tach needle reaches 4 kRPM, hold on... you'll feel your head tip back! Installation is pretty easy for 1.8:1 lift ratio, but 1.9:1 ratio is recommended you change the springs and push-rods, which adds cost and install difficulty. 1.9s are desired because they make a little more power.

PEMs will help, but I think a 3" downpipe is required to see the full benefit. A 3" downpipe by itself seems to really open up the exhaust, so I say do that, or do both the downpipe + PEMs, but not PEMs by themselves.

So what mod you do next depends on what you're comfortable with. If you like computers, get the DHP. If you are good with tools and have a garage, go rockers. If you want a little extra HP with little cost and effort, the PEM/downpipe seems to make sense.

DHP, without a doubt.

IMO, you cant really take advantage of mods unless you can tune for them. As AA said, scanning tool is great and the DHP has that as well.

Tuning with the DHP isn't easy, but Im no computer guru and managed just fine.

dreww wrote:

DHP, without a doubt.

IMO, you cant really take advantage of mods unless you can tune for them. As AA said, scanning tool is great and the DHP has that as well.

Tuning with the DHP isn't easy, but Im no computer guru and managed just fine.

With my current mods do you think im still not reaching full potential because I havn't tuned? Sounds like there is a good chance I'm getting KR , so I thought PEMs and a 3' downpipe might be a good thing to get asap.

AA wrote:

Another option: Scan software. It doesn't make your car faster, but it can tell you when it's slower, and why.

PowrTuner requires a certain level of technical patience to use. Not everyone is going to be able to pick it up and go. But if you have the time to learn, it's one of the best mods you can do, imo. It's especially a good idea if you plan to take this modding game a few steps further down the road.

Rockers are great because they let you have that upper RPM horsepower that stock motors lack. It's a mod that you will really notice. When that tach needle reaches 4 kRPM, hold on... you'll feel your head tip back! Installation is pretty easy for 1.8:1 lift ratio, but 1.9:1 ratio is recommended you change the springs and push-rods, which adds cost and install difficulty. 1.9s are desired because they make a little more power.

PEMs will help, but I think a 3" downpipe is required to see the full benefit. A 3" downpipe by itself seems to really open up the exhaust, so I say do that, or do both the downpipe + PEMs, but not PEMs by themselves.

So what mod you do next depends on what you're comfortable with. If you like computers, get the DHP. If you are good with tools and have a garage, go rockers. If you want a little extra HP with little cost and effort, the PEM/downpipe seems to make sense.

Is this in any order of recomendation, or up to my preference? Thanks for input AA .

I don't think the order matters, but there are things to consider. Both rockers and PEMs/downpipe can add HP without tuning. The PEMs/downpipe is a safer mod because it will help reduce knock, whereas rockers will probably keep knock the same. Dropping SC pulley size will increase knock.

Some reading that might help:
https://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/why-is-engine-air-flow-important-t194.htm

Makes sense to get a scanner early because if you wait you take more risk of not knowing. You cannot know if you have KR until you scan.

AA wrote:

I don't think the order matters. Rockers can add HP without tuning. Same with PEMs & downpipe. The PEMs & downpipe is a safer mod because it will help reduce knock, whereas rockers will probably keep knock the same as it is.

Makes sense to get a scanner early because if you wait you take more risk of not knowing. You cannot know if you have KR until you scan.

I have looked at the DHP Power tuner from the 3800 performance site.Its around 500.00.Is there anything else I would need to connect to my car? Have a USB cable to serial already.I think what I want is th VCM Suite ? Looks like this will be my purchase. Any other ideas or suggestions? Thanks alot AA, Jim W.

THE dhp is no longer made , however there is open software and you can tune virtually any series II 3800 with it...

My recommendation is the tuner.

That will work. The VCM is a competing product from HP Tuners. I've seen this product, and I think it is better than the old DHP PowrTuner, which is no longer available new.

Keep in mind, you have to learn a bit starting out. I went several months before I got the hang of it. We'll gladly answer your questions in our Tuning forum.

TonySmooth89 wrote:

THE dhp is no longer made , however there is open software and you can tune virtually any series II 3800 with it...

My recommendation is the tuner.

Where can I find the tuner at. How much for it.Does it write to the PCM like the dhp does?

I was referring to the Open DHP software... You can find them used on forums.

TonySmooth89 wrote:

I was referring to the Open DHP software... You can find them used on forums.

I see thanks Tony !

I'd personally suggest opening up the exhaust ahead of buying an HPT or DHP, unless you really want to put a lot of time into learning the ins and out of tuning. It is not a simple operation. You've already done a FWI and 3.4, along with plugs and a 180, now you need to let the air flow out the back side. I'd be very careful with your current mods list and the 3.4 you already have on. The stock exhaust manifolds are total crap, esp the front.

I agree with Dave. A 3" downpipe would give you a little extra top end and should help with any knock you have. Results would be instant, and price lower, compared to a tuner.

1998 Riv wrote:

I'd personally suggest opening up the exhaust ahead of buying an HPT or DHP, unless you really want to put a lot of time into learning the ins and out of tuning. It is not a simple operation. You've already done a FWI and 3.4, along with plugs and a 180, now you need to let the air flow out the back side. I'd be very careful with your current mods list and the 3.4 you already have on. The stock exhaust manifolds are total crap, esp the front.

What would be a good recomendation in the 500.00 range .I want to make sure i order everything I need at once.PEMs front and back are close to 500 already,would the 3 inch downpipes for a Bonneville work? I saw them at ZZP.

AA wrote:

I agree with Dave. A 3" downpipe would give you a little extra top end and should help with any knock you have. Results would be instant, and price lower, compared to a tuner.

So many fun toys so little money..... Thanks alot . Hee Heee..

Downpipe: www.hoganperformance.com for the Bonne's. With or without the high flow cat. I got the cat.

I'd do the SS Powrlog for the front instead of a PEM. The rear manifold isn't that bad, but ported would be better.

1998 Riv wrote:

Downpipe: www.hoganperformance.com for the Bonne's. With or without the high flow cat. I got the cat.

I'd do the SS Powrlog for the front instead of a PEM. The rear manifold isn't that bad, but ported would be better.

Looks like the DP10S for 97-03 Bonne. is the one .Its around 269 with the cat.Thanks .Powerlog for the front 119.99 plus 80.00 for powder coating.Is it worth the extra 80.00?Is the rear crucial at this point with my current mods?Also anything else that I need before I pull the trigger on this?

The rear PEM isn't crucial. I have one, but haven't installed it yet. The Plog would be ceramic coated, not powder coated. Ceramic coating is worth it, in function and appearance, imho.

The Plog is 119 for bare steel. Add $60 for stainless, and $80 more for ceramic coated. I opted for coated stainless, for durability of stainless, and heat shielding of the ceramic coat. It gets expensive. I don't know how durable the plain steel would be, even when coated. Up to you and your budget.

1998 Riv wrote:

The rear PEM isn't crucial. I have one, but haven't installed it yet. The Plog would be ceramic coated, not powder coated. Ceramic coating is worth it, in function and appearance, imho.

The Plog is 119 for bare steel. Add $60 for stainless, and $80 more for ceramic coated. I opted for coated stainless, for durability of stainless, and heat shielding of the ceramic coat. It gets expensive. I don't know how durable the plain steel would be, even when coated. Up to you and your budget.

I must have been watching too much of Orange County Choppers ,I new better than to write Powder coat ,, wow , too funny! Anyway thanks for the input.Ive got around 400.00 0r so to spend.So far Ive been looking at a DP10 S from Hogan Performance 279.99.A 304 Stainless powerlog only with gaskets is 191.99. Is there anything else I need?

You'll spend more, lol.

AA wrote:

You'll spend more, lol.

I know , who am I kidding !I plan to do much more , just need to save a while.

The DP and Plog are a good start. Or maybe you just want to save a few more bucks and do headers?

1998 Riv wrote:

The DP and Plog are a good start. Or maybe you just want to save a few more bucks and do headers?

Will the headers provide the same level of performance? Sorry to ask silly questions, just want to be thorough .Are the Pacesetter at ZZP for 359.00 any good?