Replacing Heater / Radiator Hoses

Jack the R wrote:

Can you look up the torque settings for the drain bung, and the nuts and bolts that hold on the radiator cap?

I've got the radiator hoses done. I looked at the heater hoses today, and it looks like, if you undo both on the engine block side, and tie them out of the way, you can get the firewall side with regular pliers? If they're bonded on with gunk like the other hoses were, it could still be hard to remove them.

As far as I can tell the manual does not give a torque spec for the drain bung -- no surprise there -- it's plastic for crying out loud. It has an o-ring. Get it snug and after snug turn it ~1/16 turn or so with a wrench or pliers and you should be just fine. whatever you do DO NOT overtighten it. Same with the transmission lines. Get them snug then turn 1/4 turn more and you are DONE - they are soft metal and deform to seal.

As for the radiator cap, you confused me there. The radiator cap just twists onto the filler neck. Now, if you mean the bolts that hold the plastic radiator support bar assembly on, they are listed at 89 lb-in (not much).

Albertj

I'll have to look at the drain bung again but I would swear mine is metal

Sorry about the confusion, by radiator cap I meant the big metal cover that goes over the top of the entire radiator. I pulled mine to get the fans out. I doubt the torque setting is critical here, but what the hell might as well do it right.

You're right about the rad crossmember, not critical but be careful - IIRC, those are shallow, fine threads.

Speaking of careful, go slowly on the thermostat housing bolts if you use the rubber ring only. I firmly believe in doing away with the conventional gasket, but I got a surprise when I first eliminated it: The rubber squeezes down quickly with almost no resistance, and then you're suddenly metal to metal... Not a real problem, just requires a recalibration of your arm, which isn't expecting it.

I agree with Albert on the drain plug. I'm pretty sure I treated it like an oil filter: Wrench to get it off, fingers to put it back.

The bung changed to plastic since I last saw it. How do they do that?

Eldo, why would you leave the radiator housing gasket off?

I already put mine on.

Jack the R wrote:

The bung changed to plastic since I last saw it. How do they do that?

Eldo, why would you leave the radiator housing gasket off?

I already put mine on.

Thermostat housing gasket is helpful but not absolutely necessary because the rubber gasket fits the space and hte parts are well machined.

For my money I'd use the gasket it's just less headache. Thinking about it the gasket I bet there is something subtle going on like the gasket is probably there to reduce electrolytic corrosion of the radiator as much as anything else. Or some such. Just sayin'.

Jack the R wrote:

The bung changed to plastic since I last saw it. How do they do that?

Don't you HATE it when that happens?!?

JacktheR wrote:

Eldo, why would you leave the radiator housing gasket off?
I already put mine on.

I assume you meant the thermostat housing gasket. There have been long discussion threads on here about it, but in brief:

When our cars were built, the General was switching over from the 'old style' flat gasket to the new chamfered, slotted rubber ring. Either part will do the job, but together they can actually be a problem. The big hole in the paper gasket is not large enough to clear the rubber ring, and can actually cause leakage because of the interference...

After that it becomes a matter of choice, and rather than dealing with the old paper crap in the future, I preferred to give the parts a good going-over with a proper gasket scraper (hard type, not a flexi-type that will gouge the aluminum) and use only the rubber ring. It seals perfectly with little torque required, and has the added bonus of being as quick & easy to change as a modular pulley. I've swapped my 180 & 195 stats back & forth a few times, and it's very nice to be able to do it in 5 minutes without having to remove/replace the gunky paper gasket...

Eldo wrote:

Jack the R wrote:

The bung changed to plastic since I last saw it. How do they do that?

Don't you HATE it when that happens?!?

JacktheR wrote:

Eldo, why would you leave the radiator housing gasket off?
I already put mine on.

I assume you meant the thermostat housing gasket. There have been long discussion threads on here about it, but in brief:

When our cars were built, the General was switching over from the 'old style' flat gasket to the new chamfered, slotted rubber ring. Either part will do the job, but together they can actually be a problem. The big hole in the paper gasket is not large enough to clear the rubber ring, and can actually cause leakage because of the interference...

After that it becomes a matter of choice, and rather than dealing with the old paper crap in the future, I preferred to give the parts a good going-over with a proper gasket scraper (hard type, not a flexi-type that will gouge the aluminum) and use only the rubber ring. It seals perfectly with little torque required, and has the added bonus of being as quick & easy to change as a modular pulley. I've swapped my 180 & 195 stats back & forth a few times, and it's very nice to be able to do it in 5 minutes without having to remove/replace the gunky paper gasket...

Great points!

FWIW the new fel-pro 'paper' gasket clears the rubber ring, and of course the fel-pro rubber ring is a hair or 2 taller than stock. Kinda funny actually.

Albertj

Eldo, you scared me - luckily. both my replacement gaskets are Fel-pro.

I put the bung in - this "finger tight" business is a bit iffy. I'll know if I did it right if it doesn't leak, eh?

I removed the easy ends of the heater hoses. They sure were glued on to their nipples. It looks like I'll be able to get to the other ends, but I'm looking forward to a struggle to break the hose free once the clamps are off.

albertj wrote:

Great points!
FWIW the new fel-pro 'paper' gasket clears the rubber ring, and of course the fel-pro rubber ring is a hair or 2 taller than stock. Kinda funny actually.
Albertj

Thanks Albert. And yes, that IS funny...

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo, you scared me - luckily. both my replacement gaskets are Fel-pro.

Was Albert right about the gasket-hole clearing the rubber ring?

Jack the R wrote:

I put the bung in - this "finger tight" business is a bit iffy. I'll know if I did it right if it doesn't leak, eh?
I removed the easy ends of the heater hoses. They sure were glued on to their nipples. It looks like I'll be able to get to the other ends, but I'm looking forward to a struggle to break the hose free once the clamps are off.

Yes, you'll know...
And yes, I'm not looking forward to getting those hoses off my own heater core either! Since we've found out that one of the hose fittings that plugs into the alternator bracket has a restrictor (that nobody knows about and can't be bought,) because the silly bastards changed over to an aluminum heater core, I'd say that we should slit the hoses with a knife and be very careful with the torque while coaxing those hoses off the core nipples...

Eldo wrote:

albertj wrote:

Great points!
FWIW the new fel-pro 'paper' gasket clears the rubber ring, and of course the fel-pro rubber ring is a hair or 2 taller than stock. Kinda funny actually.
Albertj

Thanks Albert. And yes, that IS funny...

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo, you scared me - luckily. both my replacement gaskets are Fel-pro.

Was Albert right about the gasket-hole clearing the rubber ring?

Jack the R wrote:

I put the bung in - this "finger tight" business is a bit iffy. I'll know if I did it right if it doesn't leak, eh?
I removed the easy ends of the heater hoses. They sure were glued on to their nipples. It looks like I'll be able to get to the other ends, but I'm looking forward to a struggle to break the hose free once the clamps are off.

Yes, you'll know...
And yes, I'm not looking forward to getting those hoses off my own heater core either! Since we've found out that one of the hose fittings that plugs into the alternator bracket has a restrictor (that nobody knows about and can't be bought,) because the silly bastards changed over to an aluminum heater core, I'd say that we should slit the hoses with a knife and be very careful with the torque while coaxing those hoses off the core nipples...

Heater hoses - cut hose near but not at nipples on firewall. Slit nose on nipple to cut reinforcing fabric (don't score the nipples). Use gasket scraper, decal remover or awl to peel hose off nipples (I prefer awl with a little antifreeze for lube).

A little trivia - the heater hoses for the RIv are among the slowest-moving items at a major national auto parts chain store. I was chatting with the manager at that store - he showed me their order screen for the heater hoses - every SKU in the store is scored 1 - 9. 1 are fastest moving and store tries to stock them. 9 are slowest moving, and no store tries to stock them matter of fact the store's manager is trying to work a deal with HQ to take orders and drop ship them rather than handle them (so they can advertise about getting hard to find items 'to your door).

The heater hoses for the Riv are ranked "8" - this store's manager does not stock items ranked "8."

Albertj

Eldo wrote:

albertj wrote:

Great points!
FWIW the new fel-pro 'paper' gasket clears the rubber ring, and of course the fel-pro rubber ring is a hair or 2 taller than stock. Kinda funny actually.
Albertj

Thanks Albert. And yes, that IS funny...

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo, you scared me - luckily. both my replacement gaskets are Fel-pro.

Was Albert right about the gasket-hole clearing the rubber ring?

I remember it clearing the rubber ring, but I also remembered the bung being metal. I wasn't looking for a problem and I didn't see one.

Quote :

And yes, I'm not looking forward to getting those hoses off my own heater core either! Since we've found out that one of the hose fittings that plugs into the alternator bracket has a restrictor (that nobody knows about and can't be bought,) because the silly bastards changed over to an aluminum heater core, I'd say that we should slit the hoses with a knife and be very careful with the torque while coaxing those hoses off the core nipples...

On the engine side, those hoses were practically glued on! I twisted on them with pliers to get them loose. It took a while.

This is pure insanity.

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo wrote:

albertj wrote:

Great points!
FWIW the new fel-pro 'paper' gasket clears the rubber ring, and of course the fel-pro rubber ring is a hair or 2 taller than stock. Kinda funny actually.
Albertj

Thanks Albert. And yes, that IS funny...

Jack the R wrote:

Eldo, you scared me - luckily. both my replacement gaskets are Fel-pro.

Was Albert right about the gasket-hole clearing the rubber ring?

I remember it clearing the rubber ring, but I also remembered the bung being metal. I wasn't looking for a problem and I didn't see one.

Quote :

And yes, I'm not looking forward to getting those hoses off my own heater core either! Since we've found out that one of the hose fittings that plugs into the alternator bracket has a restrictor (that nobody knows about and can't be bought,) because the silly bastards changed over to an aluminum heater core, I'd say that we should slit the hoses with a knife and be very careful with the torque while coaxing those hoses off the core nipples...

On the engine side, those hoses were practically glued on! I twisted on them with pliers to get them loose. It took a while.

This is pure insanity.

If it helps, it took me a couple days, sort of -- a Saturday (interrupted a lot) to R&R the radiator - including fitting hoses, the fans, and so on, and straightening out prior mistakes concerning the neoprene foam cushion that serves as the bottom "mount" for the radiator, and as well to remove, clean and replace the throttle body and as well clean the MAF and replace the IAC, as well as clean out the tar from the SC intake and EGR inlet to the SC. Convenient how they have that set up--if you're not too liberal with the cleaner (and I used a red shop rag stuffed into the SC opening as a stop), all the cleaner you spray in drains out the little EGR inlet so you don't dilute the lube... nice... (yes I took the rag back out...)

The next day in the afternoon I refilled and 'burped' the cooling system, test drove it.

Also regarding the TB: the IAC is by definition in the wrong position when installed, you are supposed to push the pintle back into the solenoid until it stops then install it. If you disconnect the battery it's *obvious* that the PCM runs some sort of a default program until you run the car at 40 MPH (cruise control helps) for a while (couple miles?!?!) so that it will re-learn how to set the thing. The telltale is the car idles at a steady 1000 RPM (when idling) until it re-learns. See the service manual for further insights on replacing the IAC.

Finally - remember that the hygrometer with the little balls does not work right with DexCool. Refractometer (cheap ones available many places) works.

Albertj

Meh, won't be doing any of that stuff. I'll keep the Riv running in stock form, and it should last until the price of electric cars comes down. No love for ICE.

Does coolant flow through the heater core constantly? Or does hot coolant only get dumped in when the heater is on?

I'm having serious doubts about changing the heater hoses now. Seems like I'm more likely to damage the heater core and give myself a real problem, than to have the heater hose fail while driving. I reeaaaally do not drive much these days.

Jack the R wrote:

Does coolant flow through the heater core constantly? Or does hot coolant only get dumped in when the heater is on?

I'm having serious doubts about changing the heater hoses now. Seems like I'm more likely to damage the heater core and give myself a real problem, than to have the heater hose fail while driving. I reeaaaally do not drive much these days.

Heater cores in these cars have constant flow.

If you have the heater hoses already, maybe just put them in a box in the trunk for now, unless your current hoses are bad (mine with ~250 K miles/13 years use were actually OK).

Why I replaced mine is that Gates Rubber (one of the OEs) had only done life testing to "200,000 miles/four years" so I was off in the long tail of the wear bell curve. I depend on my car for reliably getting to my parents' place and stuff, so the $$ was cheaper than the odds, albeit low, of a sudden failure.