Replacing Heater / Radiator Hoses

Rickw wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Gee-Zuz Krist!
By the way, has anyone tried reaching the hose clamps from beneath the car?

The only one I did from underneath was the lower radiator hose at the radiator and that was using the proper cable type clamp pliers.
All the others could be had from over the fender, again with those pliers.
It's almost impossible without them. Or I will say the heater hoses are impossible to do without the correct tool.

I think the lower radiator hose is fairly accessible if you pull the fans out first. What I was thinking was that the heater hoses might be more accessible from below, what with the firewall contour and the cruise control & main electrical connectors in the way on top...

SAE specifications state the shelf life of bulk rubber hose is 10 years from the date of manufacture. By stating that, it would seem fine to use NOS hose purchased up to 10 years old.

No, I wouldn't use a NOS rubber hose made in 1965, but hose made in 2000 is fine, and in Derek's case, the NOS parts could have been made well after '99.

They could have been made as late as, some time in 2009, before they became obsolete.
He happened to get some of the last ones made.
He was lucky, I waited too long to order and found out there were no more.

The comment I made earlier about not buying NOS, well, what I meant was I wouldn't buy from some vendor that has purchased up all the inventory from GM and plans to make a big profit as he has the only NOS hoses for a Riv.
For now buying from the local auto parts stores is fine by me as the car isn't a collectible necessitating the purchase of NOS rubber parts.

Does the local part store sell the actual molded hose or is just heater hose on a roll that is cut by the foot?

It looks to me like these heater hoses will outlast the car in most cases. Just look at the millions and millions of GM vehicles that have this type heater hose. Most of them never get changed (just my guess).
But on the other hand, in the colder climate where most of youse guys are located the hoses may deteriorate much quicker than they do down here.

Bert

Bert, They sell the molded pre-bent hoses.
That's all that will work back there. If you tried to bend regular heater hose to work you would kink it badly. Very tight quarters.

Rickw wrote:

The comment I made earlier about not buying NOS, well, what I meant was I wouldn't buy from some vendor that has purchased up all the inventory from GM and plans to make a big profit...

Yeah, not like those $50 center caps and $100 motor mounts...

I bought the hoses at NAPA and they're made by Gates. They fit nice. To get the clamps off at the firewall, I had to use the cable pliers from under the car, not that bad really. I got all the clamps off the lower radiator hose using the same cable pliers- this includes the clamp that mounts the short section of hose to the radiator, so I was able to replace that too. That was the hardest, but not too bad. Those cable clamp pliers are worth their weight in gold!

Eldo wrote:

Yeah, not like those $50 center caps and $100 motor mounts...

what bargain dealer is selling the motor mounts for $100?

Ken,
That short section of radiator hose and adapter or sleeve that is on the lower hose at the radiator can be eliminated.
Does not need to go back on. The new hose just goes from the water pump to the radiator and you eliminate that short piece.
It's just another potential area for a leak that can be removed.
It is speculated that it was installed by the factory to the radiator to assist in assembly. The short piece was attached to the radiator then the radiator with that piece was installed into car, then the radiator hose got attached to it.
I don't know about how your clamp was positioned to hold that piece to the radiator, but mine was clearly attached with the radiator out of the car as they could never have attached it in the position it was in after.
Even with the cable pliers it was real mother to get off. But the pliers saved the day again.
Having that in there is a sign that all was original, because i would venture to guess that no shop mechanic would bother putting it back on as it isn't necessary and just adds additional unnecessary labor. And it is not listed in any parts catalog, GM or aftermarket. Technically it doesn't exist.

Yeah, if you find $100.00 mounts let me know, Ill buy all of them up myself and make some money.
Or at least buy a set and have them on the shelf for when i need them.

Sorry, I couldn't remember the specifics. Any mount over $30 is a shock to my system...

(and as far as that goes, the headlight is probably a lot more, too... I know I paid less than $200 when I bought it, maybe $160 tops, but Monster wants $400!)

Well, I got up and watched my Nittany Lions fall to the Gators. It was a sloppy game. Way too many turnovers, etc. So that basically set the tone for my day...

Not really, even though I watched my team go down, I sucked it up and went out to the garage and replaced the radiator hoses in my 98 riv. Thanks to this forum, I bought one of those cable operated hose clamp pliers at autozone.

Autozone hose clamp pliers

Due to the recommendation of this tool, I was able to get both hoses changed in a matter of 1 hour and half. The upper hoses were available from gates and other brands at orielly and autozone, but nobody but napa had the lower hose. Since all the napa hoses and belts are made by gates, I opted for the napa ones.

It's friggin' cold here in Vegas, so I'm going to wait to do anymore preventative maintenance on the car until we get just a few degrees warmer. Hopefully next weekend. By the time my ebay factory manuals make it to me, I might have all my work done!

I say it in almost everyone of my posts... THANKS GUYS! THIS FORUM ROCKS!

VegasScott

Rickw wrote:

Bert, They sell the molded pre-bent hoses.
That's all that will work back there. If you tried to bend regular heater hose to work you would kink it badly. Very tight quarters.

UPDATE for 2011...

I'm planning on doing the heater hoses when I replace the intake gaskets. I didn't hit CarQuest, but at O'Reilly and NAPA they only store-stock, or even warehouse, one of the hoses. I guess they think that the shorter/simpler one can be made from bulk-hose and elbows...

I'm still waiting on a special order for the other hose.

Eldo wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Bert, They sell the molded pre-bent hoses.
That's all that will work back there. If you tried to bend regular heater hose to work you would kink it badly. Very tight quarters.

UPDATE for 2011...

I'm planning on doing the heater hoses when I replace the intake gaskets. I didn't hit CarQuest, but at O'Reilly and NAPA they only store-stock, or even warehouse, one of the hoses. I guess they think that the shorter/simpler one can be made from bulk-hose and elbows...

I'm still waiting on a special order for the other hose.

IIRC there's one or more hoses that the shorter can be cut from, but I don't recall what it is and it's not listed as a "crossreference" - maybe it was from the '01-'05 Park Ave?!? Anybody know?

Albertj

Ok check it out.
I replaced my accessory belt tensioner which has the heater passages through it. Where the heater hoses connect to it, it's got the metal hose fittings that fit into the assembly with o-rings and has the barbed end for the hoses. The assembly doesn't come with the o-rings - pretty inconvenient I would say.

There's the area I'm talking about.


There's both fittings removed from the tensioner and you can see how crappy they look. The dealer is the only local place I could find the o-rings for them. Auto chains don't even list the part.

Anyway after 200k mi, mine not only look like shit but, the longer 90 degree one seems to have some spring mechanism inside it - at least it did...

That's about all I have left of it. It was crumbling into small debris so I just wanted to get it all out so it's not just being passed through the cooling system and clogging/damaging stuff. Anyone know what this is even for? One way valve? Some sort of pressure relief spring? I don't know but since the dealer doesn't have it anymore, I'm running without it. The dealer was able to order the other small fitting so I got that one and a new o-ring (part# 24502375) for whatever I decide to do with this one. I'm thinking I'm gonna get a low mile replacement from a local junkyard or Morad.

I think I found out why that thing is there, or at least a plausible explanation:

Like the wonders of plastic manifolds, nylon manifold gaskets and Dex-Cool, I found some websites that imply we've also been
screwed on heater cores. The classic copper/brass has been replaced with aluminum (ours have) and this has led to an increase
in electrolysis & erosion failures. Keeping that coolant fresh is important for protection against electrolysis, and many OEM
applications call for a restrictor to slow down the coolant flow thru the core, to reduce erosion...

Eldo wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Bert, They sell the molded pre-bent hoses.
That's all that will work back there. If you tried to bend regular heater hose to work you would kink it badly. Very tight quarters.

UPDATE for 2011...

I'm planning on doing the heater hoses when I replace the intake gaskets. I didn't hit CarQuest, but at O'Reilly and NAPA they only store-stock, or even warehouse, one of the hoses. I guess they think that the shorter/simpler one can be made from bulk-hose and elbows...

I'm still waiting on a special order for the other hose.

When I did my LIM gasket I thought about doin' my hoses, but it seemed like a b*tch to do, as I am sure they would be quite stubborn to get off. Mark, please let us know how you go about it.

I finally started on this job - the paper gasket for the thermostat is glued down real well. I've been to three places looking for gasket remover, none had it. Can something like brakleen do the job if used carefully?

Jack the R wrote:

I finally started on this job - the paper gasket for the thermostat is glued down real well. I've been to three places looking for gasket remover, none had it. Can something like brakleen do the job if used carefully?

Gasket scraper. Looks like a screwdriver with extra-wide blade. Should be $4 to $8 at any full-line auto parts store.

If you are careful not to nick things up for a paper gasket often a single edge razor will work to peel/scrape off the old gasket.

Once you've scraped off what can be scraped off *then* maybe a solvent on a rag can be used, just mind that you use one that won't leave a residue. Dry gas (denatured alcohol) comes to mind.

Use common sense for this job and don't use anything that puts debris or solvent into the coolant passage. that you can't/don't wipe out completely.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Jack the R wrote:

I finally started on this job - the paper gasket for the thermostat is glued down real well. I've been to three places looking for gasket remover, none had it. Can something like brakleen do the job if used carefully?

Gasket scraper. Looks like a screwdriver with extra-wide blade. Should be $4 to $8 at any full-line auto parts store.

Already got the scraper, but figured it would be used in combination with a chemical to soften up the gasket.

That's good. The key is to NOT try using a flexible putty-knife or razor blade...

I use one of these, lol:

Exactly what I bought...

Eldo wrote:

That's good. The key is to NOT try using a flexible putty-knife or razor blade...

Here is a little more detail for those of you reading this who have not used a gasket scraper before.

The point with not using putty knife or razor blade is that they tend to nick the gasket surfaces and cause leaks thereby. Even with a 'gasket scraper' you have to be careful not to nick the surface (or at least to be able to sand/file/mill it back flat). The gasket scraper with single edge razor helps if only because it lets you hold that razor blade at a low enough angle to avoid nicking the mating surfaces. That is, it makes it a whole lot easier to do the job right and is generally worth the $5 to $10 to buy a decent one versus just a razor scraper... however that gizmo is actually intended for removing inspection and registration decals from windows. It can be used for gaskets, again if you don't gouge. A gasket scraper costs about the same (5 to 10$ each, or maybe $30-$40 for a set of them in varied tips) but is sturdier, kinda like a wood chisel. Because of that you can use a stone or an abrasive wheel to resharpen it and you can lean on it in such a way as to get stubborn gaskets off their mating surfaces.

If you are using a gasket scraper with the razor blade insert, be sure to use a like-new fresh sharp blade. The blades are cheap, for a DIYer it's not unreasonable to use a different blade per day. If your blade starts hanging up or not scraping well, you can try turning it over in the scraper and if that does not help replace it. And oh yeah, never leave the blade exposed when not in use. Either cover it (scraper should come with a blade cover) or remove and store or wrap-and-discard it. If you get a gasket scraper with heavy blade it's best to get one that comes with its own box to store it in. Don't let it rattle about in your toolbox...

If you end up with a razor type scraper, depending on where you live the single-edge razor refills may be cheaper at a hardware store or a drug store compared to an auto parts store.

You can see both types on line with a web search using your fave search tool.

I agree with Albert, and I would only add that a 'real' gasket-scraper comes with blades that are hard & straight... Unlike anything that comes with a razor-blade, this thing stays firm like a very wide screwdriver and helps prevent you from gouging the aluminum surface. Even with the firm gasket-scraper, you have to "modify" your angle and effort to be sure that you're not digging into the soft aluminum surface of the manifold/thermostat opening. When done properly, the carryover gasket is superfluous, and the chamferred rubber seal fits around the thermostat and drops into the notch in the manifold, 'smushing' down between the 2 surfaces when the stat-housing is tightened down...