FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)

ibmoses wrote:

Good Work!
And thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

Bert

No problem, hopefully they will be of assistance to frustrated people in the future

Code is officially gone, thanks to all who helped!

Matt, how did you actually do the repair at the main connector?

turtleman wrote:

Matt, how did you actually do the repair at the main connector?

The wire was spliced with a tube splicer and wrapped up with tape.

I just had this code pop up on mine (as well as some others). The car has been running like absolute garbage lately. Hopefully I can take care of it soon.

Hey everybody. I am back again with yet another issue. I hope it is the last for a while. I have had some time off of school recently thus why I have been posting on my number of problems...

Anyway, this code has been popping up in the '98 for a little over a month now. The code came up right after I replaced the LIM gasket and the supercharger gasket and replaced the coupler. So, I got one code (bank 1 lean code) out of the way and now I have the P0341 code up.

I have tried to fix it in a bunch of ways by now. I replaced the camshaft sensor, then had a CASE learn done. The code remained, and the GM dealer did the CASE learn and recommended a new cam sensor b/c they assumed the one I had put in was bad for some reason, even though it was new. So I had somebody else put another one in this time, not me, and the code remained after that.

I noticed this thread and saw that most people solved the problem by patching up a wire/wires going from the ICM to the PCM. I checked all of the wires for continuity and they are all good. So, I took it to my regular mechanic and they feel that the PCM may need to be replaced. They scanned it and showed me that the scanner is getting a readout from the cam sensor and I could see the "pulse" from it, or w/e you want to call it, on the scanner as the sensor fed it data... regardless, I am stuck.

Anybody have any suggestions? Let me know if more info is needed. I've been working on this for a few months now and can't seem to think of a solution except doing something with the PCM.

ZEP wrote:

Hey everybody. I am back again with yet another issue. I hope it is the last for a while. I have had some time off of school recently thus why I have been posting on my number of problems...

Anyway, this code has been popping up in the '98 for a little over a month now. The code came up right after I replaced the LIM gasket and the supercharger gasket and replaced the coupler. So, I got one code (bank 1 lean code) out of the way and now I have the P0341 code up.

I have tried to fix it in a bunch of ways by now. I replaced the camshaft sensor, then had a CASE learn done. The code remained, and the GM dealer did the CASE learn and recommended a new cam sensor b/c they assumed the one I had put in was bad for some reason, even though it was new. So I had somebody else put another one in this time, not me, and the code remained after that.

I noticed this thread and saw that most people solved the problem by patching up a wire/wires going from the ICM to the PCM. I checked all of the wires for continuity and they are all good. So, I took it to my regular mechanic and they feel that the PCM may need to be replaced. They scanned it and showed me that the scanner is getting a readout from the cam sensor and I could see the "pulse" from it, or w/e you want to call it, on the scanner as the sensor fed it data... regardless, I am stuck.

Anybody have any suggestions? Let me know if more info is needed. I've been working on this for a few months now and can't seem to think of a solution except doing something with the PCM.

You can get a working PCM off ebay for less than $100, programmed already to your VIN - just have to install and do a CASE Learn.

Albertj

That's probably what I will have to do. I personally can't think of anything else that could fix the problem.

As long as your absolutely sure that the wiring is all good to and from the PCM as mentioned earlier, then you can try a used one from Morads.
I think I paid about $50.00 for one a few years ago from them, installed it, performed a CASE learn even though the car was running good with no CEL and has worked good since.

I recently got home from school and started thinking about this problem again, as the SES is still on. I did not replace the PCM yet. I took the car to a different mechanic. He thought that the magnet for the timing chain may be bad/not strong enough, or something. And then he let me know that fixing such a problem may involve replacing the timing chain, at least, which he let me know would be quite expensive as he can't even do it himself. He said that other mechanics let him know that it may be a problem with the timing chain magnet (if I remember correctly), possibly losing strength.

I really don't know what to think of this issue and I would appreciate some help. Because a ~$1000 repair for something as small as a magnet, after all of the things that I've had to work on for the past few years, may just lead to me selling this car (my 98, not my 95). I would love to keep it for the rest of my life... regardless, I just want to see what other people think about this before I possibly go throwing another huge amount of money into something that may not even fix this issue. The SES light is still on but the car doesn't seem to drive any worse than usual.

I think you should do some more investigating with the wires. What exact wires did you test and how did you do it?

I personally did not do it. I let the usual people I take the car to test each with a voltmeter and they said that there was continuity in the wires that I let them know about (the yellow one and black one if I remeber correctly).

ZEP wrote:

I personally did not do it. I let the usual people I take the car to test each with a voltmeter and they said that there was continuity in the wires that I let them know about (the yellow one and black one if I remeber correctly).

So they tested from the ICM to PCM? Still have the possibility of a problem between the CPS and ICM.

Yep, from the ICM to the PCM. In that case, I'll tell the other guys to check them from the CPS to ICM. The car's still there. My work used to have a voltmeter (I do not) otherwise I'd do it myself.

I've checked most wires I could find related to this issue for continuity. Every wire is fine so far. Finally got some time to do this. Next step is to look at that box by the trans dipstick like L67 did for broken wires. All the wires I've examined so far have been visually fine as well.

Unfortunately I'll have this code as I drive up to Hershey for the ROA meet. I don't believe it's too bad a thing to drive up there with this code the whole time. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

So, the next step is to examine the wires from the box. And I guess the next would be to replace the timing chain. With 140k miles, it wouldn't surprise me if it was starting to go.

I would continue checking for wires, but if the car is running good and starting everytime you turn the key and not stalling at all, that's a head scratcher for sure.

I would lean toward forgetting the mechanic telling you that you need $1,000 worth of work when he himself isn't able to replace a Timing Chain on a 3800 engine. Get another opinion and forget about him.
The only magnet he could be talking about is the Hall Effect Sensor which is the Crankshaft Position Sensor and/or the Camshaft Position sensor.
If either of these were getting "Weak" as he said, neither one of them require removing the timing chain. They are external on the engine, not internal and they would or should have have caused an intermittent no start situation by now.
At this point I will have to leave it up to one of our resident mechanics to get involved and either say I'm wrong (always possible) and maybe have a suggestion or 2 for you.

Rickw wrote:

I would continue checking for wires, but if the car is running good and starting everytime you turn the key and not stalling at all, that's a head scratcher for sure.

This code doesnt necessarily cause horrible starting problems but there is a 1 in 6 chance that the engine will start IIRC. When i had this code my car seemed to start fine 95% of the time though. As for running the car with the code I believe you will be fine since the PCM goes into limp home mode and runs off the bad fuel spark table while dumping copious amounts of fuel in for added assurance. You will notice your mileage going to the shitter though.

L67 wrote:

Rickw wrote:

I would continue checking for wires, but if the car is running good and starting everytime you turn the key and not stalling at all, that's a head scratcher for sure.

This code doesnt necessarily cause horrible starting problems but there is a 1 in 6 chance that the engine will start IIRC. When i had this code my car seemed to start fine 95% of the time though. As for running the car with the code I believe you will be fine since the PCM goes into limp home mode and runs off the bad fuel spark table while dumping copious amounts of fuel in for added assurance. You will notice your mileage going to the shitter though.

I'm aware of the above, but he hasn't mentioned even one instance of his car not starting. Isn't that a little intriguing.?

Rickw wrote:

L67 wrote:

Rickw wrote:

I would continue checking for wires, but if the car is running good and starting everytime you turn the key and not stalling at all, that's a head scratcher for sure.

This code doesnt necessarily cause horrible starting problems but there is a 1 in 6 chance that the engine will start IIRC. When i had this code my car seemed to start fine 95% of the time though. As for running the car with the code I believe you will be fine since the PCM goes into limp home mode and runs off the bad fuel spark table while dumping copious amounts of fuel in for added assurance. You will notice your mileage going to the shitter though.

I'm aware of the above, but he hasn't mentioned even one instance of his car not starting. Isn't that a little intriguing.?

Yes,leads you to believable its a severyely intermittent issue (i.e. wiring )

The car has started fine every single time I've tried for the past 2+ years. My mileage has been doing fine for the most part, and I've had this code since December. The mileage I'm getting seems normal and not unusual. I could probably calculate my mileage if I have time (rare) but it seems normal.

I definately plan on continuing to check wires though so I will still do it, and I'll possibly do the timing chain deal with a few friends who've got access to a school's shop, if it comes down to that. I just understand that at ever-higher miles like it has, the chain wearing down enough to cause this doesn't seem too far fetched.

But yes I recall that the computer notices that there is a problem, but tries to account for it by adjusting things and so the issue is not really one of extreme concern, but definately is annoying to have that light on, and the possibility that it won't start.

Also, the code comes on all the time, it's not intermittent ever.

ZEP wrote:

The car has started fine every single time I've tried for the past 2+ years. My mileage has been doing fine for the most part, and I've had this code since December. The mileage I'm getting seems normal and not unusual. I could probably calculate my mileage if I have time (rare) but it seems normal.

I definately plan on continuing to check wires though so I will still do it, and I'll possibly do the timing chain deal with a few friends who've got access to a school's shop, if it comes down to that. I just understand that at ever-higher miles like it has, the chain wearing down enough to cause this doesn't seem too far fetched.

But yes I recall that the computer notices that there is a problem, but tries to account for it by adjusting things and so the issue is not really one of extreme concern, but definately is annoying to have that light on, and the possibility that it won't start.

Also, the code comes on all the time, it's not intermittent ever.

Well by intermittent I mean that the CPS could be sending signals on and off to the PCM which could explain your lack of engine starting trouble, but it takes a certain amount of successful code free starting cycles for the SES light to clear itself.

I would not change the Timing chain in hopes that it will make this code and light go away, because it won't.
If your engine is running rough and giving you other signs that maybe the chain is stretched, then yes, by all means change it.

I have to admit that I didn't know until last week that our engines have timing-chain tensioners.... Not the fancy hydraulic ones in a Northstar, but a spring-loaded tensioner nonetheless.

Between the tensioner, and getting rid of those incredibly stupid nylon timing gears, I'm not going to worry about my timing set for a long time...

ZEP wrote:

I recently got home from school and started thinking about this problem again, as the SES is still on. I did not replace the PCM yet. I took the car to a different mechanic. He thought that the magnet for the timing chain may be bad/not strong enough, or something. And then he let me know that fixing such a problem may involve replacing the timing chain, at least, which he let me know would be quite expensive as he can't even do it himself. He said that other mechanics let him know that it may be a problem with the timing chain magnet (if I remember correctly), possibly losing strength.

I really don't know what to think of this issue and I would appreciate some help. Because a ~$1000 repair for something as small as a magnet, after all of the things that I've had to work on for the past few years, may just lead to me selling this car (my 98, not my 95). I would love to keep it for the rest of my life... regardless, I just want to see what other people think about this before I possibly go throwing another huge amount of money into something that may not even fix this issue. The SES light is still on but the car doesn't seem to drive any worse than usual.

Sum this up in wone word:

"NOT."

I hear what you're saying - I suspect your PCM has taken a hit. Maybe get a used one from one of the eBAy resellers (junkyard pulls),

I think Albert may be very correct on this diagnosis.

Rarely will any one say you need a new or used PCM, but based on your issues, it could very well be the source of the problem, especially considering your engine is running good and your just getting error codes and lights.