New problem - water pump noise

robotennis61 wrote:

wow! good info. i replaced my stock battery with a optima red top with 800 CCA that should be good right?

may not be enough CCAs depending on how much you drain batttery with parking delay and what accessories you use wheil driving. Also the Riv uses a *lot* of current while apparently off.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Also the Riv uses a *lot* of current while apparently off.

Albertj

huh? Mine doesn't use any. Okay, well I haven't put an ammeter on it to check, but I can park my car for two months and come back and fire it right up with no problem. How is it using current while off?

It's all relative. The computers and radio are draining a small amount. The Riviera's "idle" current is certainly many times that of my '70 Olds, for example.

Now that my OEM battery is on the way out, I notice the car will start fine if operated daily, but after a day or two, it needs a jump. On weekends, if I don't drive the car, I need to trickle charge the battery Sunday night. So, some kind of drain is going on there, imo.

under normal conditions the radio is one drain; the receiver for the remote is another; the body control computer (locks, mirrors, seat memory) is yet another.

if your battery is fully charged when parked, the car can sit for quite some time and fire right up.

However, if you have a long delay set for the headlight-off, or if you have some incidental parasitic drain like a cellphone charger that you left in or accessories that are running while car is off (an alarm, a leak thru wiring) or if the battery is getting weak then it may become balky or not start at all.

Albertj

Just an FYI for anyone plugging a device into the cigarette lighter - it will draw current with the key off, but the accessory power outlet on the passenger side will only provide power when the key is "on".

Ok so here's the lo-down, or whatever it is the kids are saying.

Took the belt off the alternator, and spun the sucker. Sounds quiet and clean. However, I noticed the pulley is a LITTLE wobbly. Don't know if that's an issue yet.

I put the belt back on the car and started her up to do another 'screwdriver' test. Sure enough, the alternator was shaking from what I would assume to be the crooked pulley, but it wasn't making any noise from what I could tell. However....

I went to put the screwdriver on the bolt for the tensionor pulley for the alternator belt, and i COULDN'T. The screwdriver kept bouncing off! That sucker was shaking that bad.

I can only assume that my tensioner pulley is going bad and is what is making the grinding noise. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to take the belt off again and spin THAT by hand. That's for tomorrow.

Opinions? Anything else I should try while I'm at it?

I'm not surprised the tensioner was bouncing around if the alternator pulley has a wobble. But tensioner/idler pullies are known for going bad too.

Tensioner & idler pulleys are known for failing a LOT more than alternators on our cars, partly because we have so many of them.

I agree AA. I had one go bad on my Lesabre once and it was an exciting event lol. Later today, I'm going to take my belt off the alternator and spin the tensioner pulley, just to see if it makes noise or feels rough or anything. Honestly, I hope it IS the source of the noise I'm hearing because that's an easy $20 fix. More later!

Well, the tensioner pulley seems good on there too. I have no idea why it would be wobbling enough for me to not even be able to easily do the 'screwdriver test'. HOWEVER...

I believe I found the source of my grinding noise. I have a bad water pump. The pulley is wobbling about 3/16". That's A LOT. So that's the next project. Hopefully this will cure the grinding noise.

I am, however, not ruling out that the alternator might be biting the dust.

Didn't have time this week to do the water pump myself and I'm not sure I have the experience, so I gave it to my cousin and should have it back tomorrow with a new pump on it. Sucks to pay someone else, but it had to be done ASAP. Will report back!

Water pump is not too bad of a job the chop won't be that bad.

As for that alternator, you got the riv used... maybe the alternator pulley was whacked. I got a reman Delco alternator that came with a bad pulley (my guess is some genius dropped the box). Use an air wrence to take off the nut (it's not that tight but tight enough that you need the inertia of the air wrench to get that bolt off) holding on the pulley.

Albertj

Thanks Albert! Maybe I'll give that a try and check it out just to make sure.

Water pump is swapped, and maaaaaaaaan I had NO idea the Riv was actually that quiet lol. That thing was making all kinds of noise and it's running no different now, but without a clanging and banging. I still have a rattle, but I'm pretty sure it's one of my idler or tensioner pulleys. I think the supercharger tensioner pulley. Anyway, I'll give that a look ASAP, in the meantime, thanks for all the help and information everyone! I learned a lot!

-Andrew Z

You really want the loudest noise to be the clock - consider pulling out the trunk liner and put a layer of eDead or other reasonable price butyl resonance damper. I'm seriously thinking about pulling the interior and putting a layer down on the floorpan in the vicinity of the resonator and the wheels.

As for that alternator I think Summit Racing has pullies, probly chromed; also I see pullies on eBay a lot - pulls from people putting on overdrive/underdrive pullies and such. Around $5 to $10 they ask.

Would not surprise me to find pullies as counter parts at a NAPA or CarQuest.

Albertj

If you do need a stock Alternator pulley, let me know.
I have one here.
Also have a specially made 10% overdrive pulley, made from 6061-T6 billet aluminum by Smooth Flow Pulleys.
Never used. Had to supply him the stock pulley so he could make the overdrive one.
The one's he has listed on his website only fit the smaller alternator's, not our 140 amp'er.

Our alternators are AC Delco CS-144 model. (rated at 140amp output)

I would think that after making one for me he will have saved the data and be able to duplicate the pulley for all Riviera owners and provide any overdrive or underdrive pulley you want. Just have to make him aware of what vehicle and model alternator you are ordering for.
This was the first one he made for a CS-144 Alternator.

None of the vendors that make pulleys or MPS set ups have the correct pulley for the Riv alternator. They are all geared up for the all the other 3800 users.

The only place I found a steel OEM and overdrive diameter pulley's from was www.alternatorparts.com. There may be other vendors but these guys stock them for not a lot of money.

Lol yeah I'm working on that Albert, getting the car quieter. Though I have to say, despite these little issues I'm surprised how well the car is doing since it sat for 2 years. Taking it one step at a time, highest priority to lowest. I don't LIKE to have to fix problems, but I like working to fix them, if that makes sense.

Very cool, Rick. I wasn't aware people did things like that! I'll have to get back to you on an overdrive pulley. I don't have anything in the car that's not stock electronic wise and don't plan to change it, but something nice like that billet might be cool just for looks!

Andrew, after giving it some thought I'm not going to get rid of the overdrive pulley just yet.
I need to finish install of Amps and see where I stand at that point.
If I don't have a voltage problem at low RPM's then I won't bother putting it on.

I am willing to give up the stock pulley if you should need it.

No problem .

Andrew,
Why do you need an Alternator pulley.
I haven't been able to find a post explaining it.
I thought your wobble was from the Water Pump, do you also have a damaged alternator pulley ?

Oh sorry...I guess it has become a little confusing. About 2 weeks back i suspected my alternator as the source of a grinding noise and I investigated it only to find the alternator felt fine but has a slight wobble to it. Not enough for me to worry or throw a belt. I didn't have time to mess with the engine again until a few days ago when my dad and I discovered the water pump pulley was wobbling like crazy after we took the belt off and messed with it. It turns out the water pump was the source of the grinding and my alternator, for whatever reason, doesn't wobble anymore. I know, different belt system on the engine, but now the alternator looks perfect. Very strange.

However, you might be right. Maybe I will need to replace the pulley at some point, or the whole alternator, but the problem I was originally trying to trace was an awful grinding noise. Did that make sense? Sometimes I'm bad at explaining things.

Thanks, it made perfect sense. I would do as your doing and just monitor the alternator by looking at it occasionally and monitoring it's output.
Like you said the source of the noise and belt moving around was the water pump.
Just drive it and enjoy it for now.

Yep I'm going to check it out on my way to and from work every couple days with my scanner. I checked it with a volt meter at warm idle once and it was reading the same as my scanner so I think I can rely on the scanner to be accurate.

But yeah, for now, I'm definitely enjoying the nice quiet-ish engine. I should have some time to further inspect the other idler pulley I think is making noise on Tuesday. I'm glad I can do that kind of thing myself. That should be the last thing on the list of engine noises though, which is nice. I'll report back!

Just out of curiosity what are you recording for Voltage at idle and above idle.
I'd like to compare.
Thanks,
Rick

p.s. I added a #4 AWG cable from the Alternator output terminal to the underhood terminal that feeds back to the battery and to the starter.

I'm usually at 14.6 at idle and 14.9 anywhere above that, unless my RPM fluctuation issue is occuring, where it reads anywhere from 11-14.9. That's in my other post though.

Well, you have very good voltage readings.
I still have to install a diode/resistor in the sense wire for 14.8 volts on average..
With the addition of the #4 awg wire from alternator and adding the resistor I think i'll be OK to add Amplifier's without a problem.