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 Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning

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Rickw
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Rickw
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 1:10 am

You can't see that mount from under the hood and hardly from under the car. It's buried in there.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 1:42 am

Rickw wrote:
You can't see that mount from under the hood and hardly from under the car. It's buried in there.

The other 3 look pristine on my car. Hopefully that's not one that usually breaks...
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 8:43 am

Rickw wrote:
Albert, never heard of an insert for the mounts.
Do you have a link.

mount is here

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1303322,parttype,8616

pic is here

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1015579

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 3:14 pm

i thought all years had replaceable bushings?
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nigelf
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:04 pm

I purchased the rockauto insert for the drivers front ... i dont think i got the right part its metal tube is not the same length to the one i took out! its about 1/2 of an inch short each side!!

Nigel
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Rickw
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:31 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
i thought all years had replaceable bushings?
Control Arm Bushings.
No, not all years have the bushings readily available. GM offers replacement control arms with the bushings and a ball joint pre-installed only for certain years. I forget which years at the moment.
No aftermarket control arm bushings that I know of for later year cars.
I have read of others doing some research and modifying a bushing from something else and making it work.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:32 pm

nigelf wrote:
I purchased the rockauto insert for the drivers front ... i dont think i got the right part its metal tube is not the same length to the one i took out! its about 1/2 of an inch short each side!!

Nigel
Nigel are you referring to the control arm bushing or the Trans mount insert.?
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nigelf
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:32 pm

trans mount insert
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GMFreak8
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 5:28 pm

Funny, I didn't even notice there was another thread with almost the exact title.

My mechanic had me torque brake it and see how far the engine moved. It moved quite a bit, but nothing I would call extreme. I'm making an appointment with him to get my trans fluid flushed and pulleys changed. I'll have him drive it more and see if it's not a ball joint or something like that. I'm almost hoping that it is a ball joint.

I noticed that when it does it I can feel it in the steering wheel, along with the gas pedal. I can also feel it clunk when turning the wheels from a straight ahead position in either direction. Like just slightly turning the wheel to the left and right, but not enough to make the wheels turn any amount. I don't know if that may be related or a separate issue though. Ugh, this is frustrating. Why does everything have to be so expensive.

It is possible that the mount by the serpentine belt isn't tightened all the way. I did recently have an AC Compressor clutch assembly replaced.

If I don't get this taken care of right away and it is the mounts, the engine isn't going to fall out or anything is it? lol If it's just going to make noise I might live with it.
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 5:32 pm

Rickw wrote:
Kyle,
The OEM GM P/N's are:
For 95-98
Front Trans = #22201114
Rear Trans = 22201115

There are two other mounts but are not normally a problem with the miles you have.
I have replaced both of the above at about 85K miles. They were junk.

Any possible way you could give me the part numbers for the other two mounts too? Just in case... Thanks for the help.
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RivGuy
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Noise in front end after replacing belts   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2010 11:13 am

Help!!!!!!!!! I had the belts changed at a Buick dealership in Martinsville IN and now I have a wheel bearing type noise coming out of the left front when I make a right turn only when some power is applied, no noise when just turning. This car only has 24000 miles and wheel bearing are OK. No noise when turning Left. And no noise before changing belts. The car is S/Ced Not tires or CV joints. Thanks.
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2010 11:32 am

RivGuy wrote:
Help!!!!!!!!! I had the belts changed at a Buick dealership in Martinsville IN and now I have a wheel bearing type noise coming out of the left front when I make a right turn only when some power is applied, no noise when just turning. This car only has 24000 miles and wheel bearing are OK. No noise when turning Left. And no noise before changing belts. The car is S/Ced Not tires or CV joints. Thanks.

24K on a riv? shocked i"m jealous.

I'm sorry I can't be of much help. My noise seemed to have disappeared. Must have been the new struts wearing in. Now I just have a lose steering knuckle that clunks on turns.

Are you sure it's not coming from the supercharger or another pulley?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2010 1:20 pm

RivGuy wrote:
Help!!!!!!!!! I had the belts changed at a Buick dealership in Martinsville IN and now I have a wheel bearing type noise coming out of the left front when I make a right turn only when some power is applied, no noise when just turning. This car only has 24000 miles and wheel bearing are OK. No noise when turning Left. And no noise before changing belts. The car is S/Ced Not tires or CV joints. Thanks.

Did you take it back to the dealership and what did they tell you.

Depending on your dealership, it may be difficult to find a mechanic familiar with the Riviera. There were not but so many of them and it's been 11 years since the last. Some dealership shops basically only do new car prep, they actually sublet much if not all the mechanical work and that can create problems too. The hint is really simple - About mid-morning, when all the cars that are up for service that day should be in bays, have a look in the repair shop. If there are a bunch of newer cars, five model years or LESS old, that is a sign that the dealer service focuses on warranty work and new car prep. You can then ask the service writer or service manager if your car's work sublet. He or she may not really want to tell you this - you canelicit it from him or her though. What you do is talk about it without really asking questions Get a look inthe shop or ask to look in it. If they do mostly new car prep it will be nearly spotless. Then just say something like "you all must spend thousands on janitros to detail the garage, I've never seen anyplace that does mechanical work so clean. And never seen so many new cars in a shop. You do work on older cars somewhere I suppose." Then look at him or her and smile (gently).

Beyond that, I bet if you calmly tell the service manager that the car's making this new noise and will they please have a look at it in case something was mis-assembled -- you'd be much obliged to them.

By the way - did you know that in order to change the serpentine and SC belts you have to either remove the pass. side motor mount, or remove a bolt and ferrule in the mount and slip the belts thru. Point is that depending on *how* the mechanic went about the belt change there maybe might possibly be a problem. Depends on how familiar they are with the Riv - I don't think there was another GM SC car with similar belt routing.

The other thing is that the noise may well be unrelated. If you do not do mechanical work yourself, it will be very difficult to find this problem Fussing at a dealer's service manager about a truly unrelated problem is not going to help.

Finally, you would be better prepared for your talk with the dealer if you at least look on this site where it tells how to replace the belts.

Albertj
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2010 1:50 pm

Albert's advice here is excellent. Depending on how they approached the belt change could be a part of the problem. If they went in through the pass. side wheel well they could have left the splash shield not quite right, it could be rubbing on the tire.
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 16, 2010 2:09 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Albert's advice here is excellent. Depending on how they approached the belt change could be a part of the problem. If they went in through the pass. side wheel well they could have left the splash shield not quite right, it could be rubbing on the tire.

I'd say this is likely. The fasteners tend to break if you're unfamiliar with them or just don't care - and sometimes for various reasons a mechanic won't put them all back.

Basically there's 2 ways to swap those belts. One involves removing the motor mount. The other involves removing the pass. side wheel, fenderliner, then pulling that bolt/ferrule I mentioned. The latter approach is in the write-up on this site.

Even with everything in *Right* there are certain tires that will rub on the inner fender liner if you're running the stock 7" wide wheels (the 12-spokes).

Again for my money I'd give the dealer a crack at getting this right.

Albertj
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2010 5:22 pm

So the clunking is official the rack. Mechanic said to just leave it alone, it makes a noise but that's all. No danger and it won't get any worse. I'm not investing in a new rack until absolutely needed.

In other news, anyone have a lumbar motor and white door handle they want to part with?
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2010 7:08 pm

RivGuy wrote:
Help!!!!!!!!! I had the belts changed at a Buick dealership in Martinsville IN and now I have a wheel bearing type noise coming out of the left front when I make a right turn only when some power is applied, no noise when just turning. This car only has 24000 miles and wheel bearing are OK. No noise when turning Left. And no noise before changing belts. The car is S/Ced Not tires or CV joints. Thanks.

Update?

Albertj
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Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 11:36 am

Albertj and all others, Ist of all the dealer said he can't fix and gave me my money back, charged $82.00 labor and caused undeturmined expense. I don't know how they R&R the belts both were replaced.
The car was just fine B/4 so it has to be related to the replacement the old belt that were all cracked up from age.
The car still has the original tires, I rotated the tires from front to rear, no change in noise.
The service mgr does not want to see me again, and the GM thinks the service mgr is God
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 3:58 pm

RivGuy wrote:
Albertj and all others, Ist of all the dealer said he can't fix and gave me my money back, charged $82.00 labor and caused undeturmined expense. I don't know how they R&R the belts both were replaced.
The car was just fine B/4 so it has to be related to the replacement the old belt that were all cracked up from age.
The car still has the original tires, I rotated the tires from front to rear, no change in noise.
The service mgr does not want to see me again, and the GM thinks the service mgr is God

So in other words they banned you from the dealer? Welcome to my world. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 10:26 pm

My 1st experience changing the belts on my 98 had me taking the motor mount too far apart, I forgot to tighten the 2 bottom frame bolts fully and within a week I had a crunch when turning hard or changing gears.

Simple fix for me was to go back and re-tighten every mount bolt, problem solved.
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PostSubject: Re: Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning   Crunching/Clunking/Roaring noise on takeoff and turning - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 11:41 pm

I see.

Please do not take the following personally: Basically dealer's service manager has decided not to accept your business, which can be defensible. Their defense is they gave you your money back, most places that's the limit of liability. That is, if you were to go to court, you'd have no "damages" because the dealer gave you back all your monetary consideration. Since you have no damages, you have no case. Given the age (high) and mileage (very low) on your car I'd might well do the same thing, if only because I would not relish the headache of explaining to someone (you) that what they think is a Cream Puff is going to be problematic to repair. Even if you were civil and nice about the whole thing. Why? Because new car dealers' repair tickets are usually $500 and up - if it only costs me $82 not to hear you complain, from my perspective it's probably $82 well spent and I don't chew up shop/mechanic time with your job.

Second - again don't take this personally - don't assume the belt replacement caused the problem, and don't assume it did not. I realize this may be a little hard to believe/take, but no kidding the noise and your belt replacement really could be unrelated. Or they could be related. I can not tell you which is which from here.

I think the following, not in any order, are your options:

1) if you have a garage to work in, and some tools (not necessarily the ones you need), you may well be able to fix this yourself. The factory service manuals will help a lot, they're usually available used from someone or other on eBay. What you want to do is open the hood and look at the passenger side frame rail. One of the motor mounts is on this frame rail. Look to see if maybe one of its bolts is loose. There are several on the engine and on the frame rail. You will likely need at least an adjustable wrench to check them and you need to check them all. You may be able to get to the lower ones only by jacking up the car (use jackstands) and removing the right front wheel. Anyway - if they can be moved with an adjustable wrench they are probably not tight enough and you may need to tighten them or have a mechanic tighten them. If this is the case, what happened was the mechanic removed the motor mount and did not get it right on reinstallation. The service manual says remove the motor mount to change the belts - You can but the truth is on the 97 and later Riv you don't have to, you can support the motor and remove the lower right bolt - it goes thru a ferrule - the belt can be slipped out and new one installed thru that opening. Do NOT support the engine by the oil pan, though, or the oil pan gasket will start leaking and have to be replaced. As I think I mentioned obove there is a write up on this site detailing how to replace the belts this way.

2) find an independent mechanic. I think in your case best way to do this is to go to a used-only car dealer and ask who they send their cars to for repairs. They may ask why; just tell 'em that you had some work done at a dealer, you were not happy, and they refunded your money instead of taking it back in the shop. WHATEVER YOU DO, do NOT say anything bad about the dealer or you won't get a referral worth a darn. Just say, "well it's an older car and I like it a lot, but thinking about it I guess it does not make sense for the dealer to work on it and at the same time, the problem... well it just popped up when the belts were replaced, and I'd really like to pay someone to find it and fix it. So I figured a place that gets used cars running nice for their lot probably does not use a dealer mechanic and probably does know people that can find and fix problems like this. Please point me the right direction." Now, a smart used car salesman, if he's not busy, is going to ask how you came across the car int eh first place, what you drove before, and such -- because he's going to think about if you would be a good customer. If you give any inkling of being a hothead if and when the used car lot guy starts asking you questions you are not likely to get a good referral. If not, you may.

3) Take it to a different GM car dealer. This has the same pros and cons as dealing with the first dealer but different shops have different staff -- and this other dealer may have one or more older mechanics who understand your car.

4) Live with it. I don't recommend this at all.

Now, here is what else I'd check for.

First, look inside the wheel openings on both sides. You'll see a black plastic "inner fender." Look for a crescent or banana shaped scuff on that inner fender where the tire might be rubbing the inner fender.

Second, look under the car on the passenger side for loose parts. You might need the factory manual for this, as it has drawings of most parts and how they fit together.

Third, look inside the wheel openings on both sides for grease on the inner fenders. If you see any, while the car is on the ground look at the CV boots - if you have grease on the inner fenders you have a failed boot that most likely is on a failiing joint - that would be making your noise. This is about a $300 to $400 problem, requires getting a remanufactured 1/2 axle and replacement.

Fourth, look at the front axles to see if there is, by coincidence, something (a twig?) caught in the car's front suspension. If so pull it out, be careful not to break something else.

Finally - I suspect most likely the problem is the mount was not reinstalled right or worked loose after installation. The Riv's belt routing is unusual and it could well be there is a problem there.

Let us know what you find.

Albertj
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