Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement

I'm finally on this job, waited until I needed a few things from Rock Auto so their excessive shipping charges were a little easier to swallow.

I'm trying to get the old motor off and that baby is stuck on there good! I took three nuts off which looked like the only thing holding it on. Looking for suggestions . . . I tried prying on it with a crow's foot (mini crowbar) and it just felt like I was going to tear things up.

3 nuts and it should slide right out. Are you able to move the window by hand (pushing up or down on the assembly).

I can't move either side by hand, the suspension absorbs the force I'm putting into the window.

I've sprayed WD-40 around the old motor, maybe it'll break loose after a while. I don't see how I can force it with it being attached to that skimpy metal piece.

Windows that don't roll down suck, luckily this repair is cheap and fairly easy. Here's how to do it.

First, get that door panel off -



Next, support the window (unless it's stuck down).

I used a shower grip from Wal-Mart -





The chain is tied around a rafter on the other end.

Peel back the plastic liner (the sound deadener will probably crumble apart on you) from the top back corner of the door to expose the window motor. Be careful not to get dirt in the sticky gunk, and you can stick the liner back up when you're done without buying new gunk.

Remove the three nuts that hold the motor on.

My old motor would not come out without using a crow bar -



I pried against a crow's foot hung over the inner door metal.

When the motor is loose, it's easier to remove if you use a crowbar to push the inside of the door out a bit -



The old motor. No signs of what killed it











I bought the cheapest new motor from Rock Auto, a $30 Dorman unit -







Spray the gear of the new motor with open gear lube -





Using the crow bar again, stick it in and put the nuts back on -



Pick the right connectors from the kit and hook that baby up! Then use the zip tie to tidy up the wiring -



Put the door panel back on and let the happy begin

So far I've found the Dorman to be perfectly fine. It seems to be as fast as the original motor. It's certainly faster than the passenger side motor.

One thing I did notice, which is a major improvement, is an increased delay before the express down hits. Gone is the annoying hair trigger action , it now works exactly how you'd want it to work.

I also replaced the switch though, so maybe that's where the improvement was made.

I leave work yesterday which happened to be 94* with a 70* dew point outside, and as luck would have it, my driver's side window decides not to open! The cars thermometer said 98* sitting in the lot.
Now I curse at myself for putting off fixing the AC weeks ago as I had planned.
Needs a compressor. Leaks like crazy.

This morning, it still didn't work, but I kept hitting the switch as I drove along and it finally opened.
Going to have to tear into this. Hoping it is just a loose connection, but I suspect the brushes and/ or commutator in the motor may be worn since I could hear and feel kind of a click when I pressed the button like the motor wanted to turn but couldn't. Don't think it was a relay I was hearing and feeling. But who knows.

Excellent writeup, Jack! A ton of pics, and I didn't even know that the nice, spray-on Open Gear Lube existed...

Just 2 observations:

- If they are available, I'd probably want a motor that still uses a metal gearbox... There are a lot of "instant max-torque hits" that those housings have to take over the years.

- If someone is leery about prying the door panel inward with a crowbar, they can also mark the locations of the window-tilt adjusters, then loosen them and swing the bottom of the regulator outward to make clearance for removing the motor.

Sweepspear - sounds like the way my motor failed. For $34 bucks you might as well replace it while you're in there.

Eldo - The motors with metal gearboxes are available. IIRC they don't cost much more either. After reading your comment, I'd get the metal gearbox, if I had to do it all over again. I don't use the windows much though, and I'm planning to have the original motor rebuilt, so I won't cry too hard. Still, good advice for the next guy!

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down. Could it be something else? When I removed the motor, the glass didn't move at all. I had the window in the up position and it didn't even budge when I removed the old motor. I tried cleaning the old grease off the tracks and putting new lithium grease, but it didn't seem to help any.

Also the plastic liner was falling apart in my hands. Can you still buy a new one? If not, can I just use some plastic to make a new one? Would 6 mil be enough?

Check to make sure your run channels that the window ride in are properly adjusted. Also make sure weatherstripping in the run channels is sitting properly.Also check the condition of the window regulator.Try removing two 10mm nuts that attach window to regulator and run up and down without window attached. If your door has ever been damaged, the intrusion beam may also be interfering with the windows movement. I hope this is helpful.

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down. Could it be something else? When I removed the motor, the glass didn't move at all. I had the window in the up position and it didn't even budge when I removed the old motor. I tried cleaning the old grease off the tracks and putting new lithium grease, but it didn't seem to help any.

Also the plastic liner was falling apart in my hands. Can you still buy a new one? If not, can I just use some plastic to make a new one? Would 6 mil be enough?

to add to what Dave wrote, yes you can use plastic sheeting of like thickness; suggest you get the roll of sheeting intended to serve as temporary windows from a hardware store - it'll put up with the weather better. Of course, use the old one as a pattern. The black sticky stuff is 3M Strip-Calk, generally available from CarQuest and NAPA parts stores.

Albertj

The window motor should be replaced with the regulator as an assembly.
Otherwise you will not know what if anything is out of alignment and worn out.
On these cars, as all later model GM's, I've never heard of replacing just the motor.???
Except for on this site.

Rickw wrote:

The window motor should be replaced with the regulator as an assembly.
Otherwise you will not know what if anything is out of alignment and worn out.
On these cars, as all later model GM's, I've never heard of replacing just the motor.???
Except for on this site.

Depending on where you are you can have the motor rebuilt locally.

The regulators on the RIv are fairly stout. Notwithstanding I recall seeing motor/regulator assemblies on rockauto.com

when the dealer fixed mine, they just replaced the motor (they inspect the regulator and replace if necessary, apparently you can tell by play or lack of play in the mechanism or some such). just the same it kinda explains why getting the motor off the regulator is such a pain...

Albertj

albertj wrote:

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down. Could it be something else? When I removed the motor, the glass didn't move at all. I had the window in the up position and it didn't even budge when I removed the old motor. I tried cleaning the old grease off the tracks and putting new lithium grease, but it didn't seem to help any.

Also the plastic liner was falling apart in my hands. Can you still buy a new one? If not, can I just use some plastic to make a new one? Would 6 mil be enough?

to add to what Dave wrote, yes you can use plastic sheeting of like thickness; suggest you get the roll of sheeting intended to serve as temporary windows from a hardware store - it'll put up with the weather better. Of course, use the old one as a pattern. The black sticky stuff is 3M Strip-Calk, generally available from CarQuest and NAPA parts stores.

Albertj

I also have a roll of the equivalent 3M strip Caulk called ribbon Sealer that I got from the Auto Parts store that services the local Auto body shops. It's probably the same thing only made by a different manufacturer. This is black sealer 3/8"x 3/8" x 15 feet long. More than I'll need to reseal both of my doors. This is also the same stuff that is used to seal some of the older style windshield glass. Has limited working temp range from 60*F to 80*F. As far as what it says on the package. For the door weather seal it can be used outside those parameters.

I'm a little sketchy on the motor repair. is the window motor like an alternator,that you have to replace brushes or some such?

Rickw wrote:

The window motor should be replaced with the regulator as an assembly.
Otherwise you will not know what if anything is out of alignment and worn out.
On these cars, as all later model GM's, I've never heard of replacing just the motor.???
Except for on this site.

No problems here.

robotennis61 wrote:

I'm a little sketchy on the motor repair. is the window motor like an alternator,that you have to replace brushes or some such?

It is a DC Motor. Yes, it has brushes and an armature, etc like a small DC Generator.
You could find brushes to replace and possibly refurbish the unit. The only problem with that is by the time you got done testing it completely after it has been operating for 10 or more years, you will most likely find many other parts inside worn to their limits as well and would conclude that it is cheaper to just replace the whole motor assembly.
If you had an accumulation of a bunch of these motors, used, you could probably refurbish some of them by mix and matching and just buying some new brushes and bearings, but would it be worth it in the long run. I say no, just replace the unit with new not refurbed.

interesting

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down.

I disagree with the folks who say you can't replace the motor only, as you have obviously already found...

My first instinct was that your counter-balance spring was mis-set, except that you said that they window originially was slow going both down AND up... I vote for breaking out the manual and giving it the whole, annoying frameless-window adjustment process.

robotennis61 wrote:

I'm a little sketchy on the motor repair. is the window motor like an alternator,that you have to replace brushes or some such?

The window motor has brushes, but in every window motor failure I've seen it's just that the magnets come unglued from the can.

I was told that when the brushes were riveted in place the magnets did not work loose unless the rivet was not done right in the first place.

They could get rid of the problem by stamping dimples in the cans that the magnets would slide behind or making a little plastic frame that would fit in the can to hold them in place. Either would add manufacturing steps and require equipment and tooling $$ costing more than the glue. Given the glued magnets last so long that'd likely be a tough discussion for many if not most component makers trying to meet any competitive cost targets. Given current knowledge of mettalurgy and chemistry I bet that someone is cheaping out on one or more of the glue, the can, or the manufacturing process (probably the cleaning). Given how long the glue holds (usually in the range of a 10-year 150,000 mile engineering target) I bet it would be tough to get someone to care. Call it 'engineering tradeoffs.' I bet that for some other makes/models of car you might get a better design.

Albertj

Eldo wrote:

98riv wrote:

I had been having problems with my passenger side window rolling up and down slowly, so I just replaced the motor today and it is still having the same problem. It seems to slow down once it reaches half way down.

I disagree with the folks who say you can't replace the motor only, as you have obviously already found...

My first instinct was that your counter-balance spring was mis-set, except that you said that they window originially was slow going both down AND up... I vote for breaking out the manual and giving it the whole, annoying frameless-window adjustment process.

I will have to look in the manual and look it over. I don't have the manual next to me, but can you adjust the counter-balance spring?

Here are the window adjustments.....hope it helps.

Thanks Scott, that helps a lot!

I moved a few posts below from the alternator thread. I haven't had much time to check out the problem with the window motor. Just trying to get some more ideas before I have the door apart.

98riv wrote:

I ended up getting a new battery and so far everything seems to be back to normal. I still have to figure out why the window motor on the passenger side is so slow, but that will have to wait until it gets warmer out.

Window is driven by a DC motor. DC motor speed depends on having adequate current to work at all and supply voltage above a threshold. Any given DC motor is/can be rated for a certain RPM at a certain voltage and current. It may turn at 2/3 or 1/2 or less the rated voltage, but will turn slower than if at the rated voltage provided enough current. It will not turn if provided the rated voltage at inadequate current. The higher the voltage the faster it will turn up to a limit (burnout/failure).

So if your motor is running slower than it used to it has in internal problem, or an external wiring problem, that is cuttting voltage. It could be that your battery's run down due to age - or due to a problem in that motor or elsewhere.

If I were you and I had a little time on my hands, I'd check the witing to the motor. If the wiring looked/tested OK I'd replace the motor, and I'd try to get an OE motor (the OE motors were pretty quick). A motor and regulator from a donor junkyard Riv might be easiest; that failing (or undesirable for some reason), a replacement rebuilt might be. There's a writeup somewheres on this site detailing window motor replacement.

Albertj

Could a bad regulator also cause something like this?