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 !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!

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oldmanriver
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Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptyWed Aug 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Real quick things that have been addressed 1Cat//2MAF//3Plugs//4various sensors to measure current with voltmeter//5 NO Check Engine Light… even when I ran it without the Cat... probably more but, I can’t think straight anymore because of this car! I had a mechanic tell me the part in the pic, is a vacuum assist for the SC. When I play with the throttle it either is all the up or all the way down to both extremes, but when I stop it somewhere in the middle it seems to run better and be more responsive. I’m guessing that this motherfucking thing should be regulated in some way to fluctuate in response to air/fuel mixture. ANY HELP IS APPRITICATED for I need this vehicle to get me to school and work!!



https://2img.net/h/i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/oldmanriver88/96d406a8.jpg

https://2img.net/h/i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/oldmanriver88/96d406a8.jpg

https://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/oldmanriver88/?action=view¤t=2401154f.mp4 <<(VIDEO)


Last edited by oldmanriver on Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:39 am; edited 7 times in total
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1775
Merit : 118

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 8:25 am

Go to www.photobucket.com Sign up for a free account. Upload the picture to photobucket from your computer. Copy the image link into your post, and the picture will appear.

Autozone will scan your car for free. Series1 engines require the right scan tool to read the 95 computer.


_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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oldmanriver
Member


Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptyFri Aug 17, 2012 11:07 pm

Thanks Larry I looked everywhere for OBD1 scanner already, no check engine light… thought I would see if it threw a code neway.it didn’t!! Thanks for the photo bucket help, Here is what I think may be giving me problems
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1775
Merit : 118

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 9:18 am

One of the nice things about car bulletin boards is that there may be someone living near you who could help, but you, and that person will never know it because you didn't fill out your profile. If you list your location in your profile, it will come up every time you post.


The first thing I would do in your case is check fuel pressure.

The part in your picture is the boost bypass controller. Your engine will run through the bypass under normal conditions. When you step down on the gas, the bypass closes and air must go through the supercharger. I can't see that being your problem.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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oldmanriver
Member


Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 10:49 am

ok. Got a buddy whos been helping me try to ID the problem. Wechecked the pressure at the rail and its there he informed me when i asked if the pressure should chage based on the situation i demand. He says no it should be at a constant pressure which it is.
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1775
Merit : 118

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 3:48 pm

oldmanriver wrote:
ok. Got a buddy whos been helping me try to ID the problem. Wechecked the pressure at the rail and its there he informed me when i asked if the pressure should chage based on the situation i demand. He says no it should be at a constant pressure which it is.

OK, I would start checking the ignition system, and all the associated wiring. Have a look at the crank position sensor.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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oldmanriver
Member


Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 4:24 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
oldmanriver wrote:
ok. Got a buddy whos been helping me try to ID the problem. Wechecked the pressure at the rail and its there he informed me when i asked if the pressure should chage based on the situation i demand. He says no it should be at a constant pressure which it is.

OK, I would start checking the ignition system, and all the associated wiring. Have a look at the crank position sensor.

What can be done to ID/rule out what You have mentioned, for all my mechanical abilities are limited to the M1 Abrams and the M551 Sheridan tanks. $$ I extremely tight, Ill spare the reasons, but getting to school and work is of extreme importance. If I had at least a piece of mind as to what the problem is, that would offer me enough satisfaction and help drive me make a decision as to what to do with the car. I would hate to have to get rid of it, but school/$ have priority over my life right now. Thanks for the help so far Larry!
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1775
Merit : 118

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 4:43 pm

I hear you. If it were me, I'd look carefully at the back side of the harmonic balancer and the crank sensor itself( Behind balancer). Check the wiring for obvious damage. I can't tell you how many times I have found wiring problems on my 98. I had a cam sensor code that turned out to be a broken wire at the engine harness connection at the firewall. My level control was non functional due to a broken wire between the level sensor and relay under the rear seat. My power mirrors went out because of a broken wire in the flexible coupling in between the body and door. The wiring can break or corrode inside, and look OK until you pull on it. Look everything over carefully, it doesn't cost anything. You can also test the coils with a multi meter. Also, the ignition control module is right under the coils. You can get corrosion there and under the mounting of the ICM. Take apart everything and clean any corrosion you see. Also look for broken ground wires. There are a lot of grounds on these cars, and if they are broken and/or corroded, you wouldn't believe the symptoms they can cause. Good Luck.

BTW, if you rev these engines in Park, there is a rev limiter that kicks in, so that is normal.

OBD2 is so much better than OBD1. My scan tool will do OBD1, but if there is no CEL, it can't tell you anything.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
Master
albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7734
Merit : 164

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 5:35 pm

oldmanriver wrote:
LARRY70GS wrote:
oldmanriver wrote:
ok. Got a buddy whos been helping me try to ID the problem. Wechecked the pressure at the rail and its there he informed me when i asked if the pressure should chage based on the situation i demand. He says no it should be at a constant pressure which it is.

OK, I would start checking the ignition system, and all the associated wiring. Have a look at the crank position sensor.

What can be done to ID/rule out what You have mentioned, for all my mechanical abilities are limited to the M1 Abrams and the M551 Sheridan tanks. $$ I extremely tight, Ill spare the reasons, but getting to school and work is of extreme importance. If I had at least a piece of mind as to what the problem is, that would offer me enough satisfaction and help drive me make a decision as to what to do with the car. I would hate to have to get rid of it, but school/$ have priority over my life right now. Thanks for the help so far Larry!

step 1 is get a manual, probably. Try looking at the Carnegie Library website. They have access via EBSCO which I think gets you to Alldata or Mitchell's. You can have a library card for the asking then use that bar code # on that card to log in from home or where have you.
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oldmanriver
Member


Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 6:28 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
I hear you. If it were me, I'd look carefully at the back side of the harmonic balancer and the crank sensor itself( Behind balancer). Check the wiring for obvious damage. I can't tell you how many times I have found wiring problems on my 98. I had a cam sensor code that turned out to be a broken wire at the engine harness connection at the firewall. My level control was non functional due to a broken wire between the level sensor and relay under the rear seat. My power mirrors went out because of a broken wire in the flexible coupling in between the body and door. The wiring can break or corrode inside, and look OK until you pull on it. Look everything over carefully, it doesn't cost anything. You can also test the coils with a multi meter. Also, the ignition control module is right under the coils. You can get corrosion there and under the mounting of the ICM. Take apart everything and clean any corrosion you see. Also look for broken ground wires. There are a lot of grounds on these cars, and if they are broken and/or corroded, you wouldn't believe the symptoms they can cause. Good Luck.

BTW, if you rev these engines in Park, there is a rev limiter that kicks in, so that is normal.

OBD2 is so much better than OBD1. My scan tool will do OBD1, but if there is no CEL, it can't tell you anything.



Alright… I cleaned the ICM, it didn’t look bad. We found a vac line that would collapse when we increase RPM’s and a few weeks ago when I was doing my own trouble shooting due to the sound of the Riv struggling for air. I took it upon myself to clean the MAF with starting fluid, that I was just told I shouldn’t have done. I think it was bad before I “cleaned” it for I was left with the same problem. Now when we disconnected the MAF it threw a check engine light but, the throttle response was there, just like I remembered it! I took it for a drive, it ran better, but not all there. Also I have an exhaust leak before the cat at the clamp from when my buddy replaced it. Im thinking of adding another clamp along with my cure all buddy JB.
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oldmanriver
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Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 6:48 pm

albertj wrote:
oldmanriver wrote:
LARRY70GS wrote:
oldmanriver wrote:
ok. Got a buddy whos been helping me try to ID the problem. Wechecked the pressure at the rail and its there he informed me when i asked if the pressure should chage based on the situation i demand. He says no it should be at a constant pressure which it is.

OK, I would start checking the ignition system, and all the associated wiring. Have a look at the crank position sensor.

What can be done to ID/rule out what You have mentioned, for all my mechanical abilities are limited to the M1 Abrams and the M551 Sheridan tanks. $$ I extremely tight, Ill spare the reasons, but getting to school and work is of extreme importance. If I had at least a piece of mind as to what the problem is, that would offer me enough satisfaction and help drive me make a decision as to what to do with the car. I would hate to have to get rid of it, but school/$ have priority over my life right now. Thanks for the help so far Larry!

step 1 is get a manual, probably. Try looking at the Carnegie Library website. They have access via EBSCO which I think gets you to Alldata or Mitchell's. You can have a library card for the asking then use that bar code # on that card to log in from home or where have you.

Thanks, EBSCO never crossed my mind!! I havent used it for a while.
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oldmanriver
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Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Joined : 2012-07-29
Post Count : 75
Merit : 1

!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySat Aug 25, 2012 12:55 pm

Replaced the MAF runs a lil better but it still sputters. I can heat\r the SC trying to move air but, the power is still not there, at times I can feel it @ the top end. Nothing at the bottom or midrange, if I go WHOP from 0mph it struggles and sputters, with gradual improvement through the R’s. I still have the hot start problem, it is most common once the Riv is brought up to temp, sits for about 15-20mins, it turns over and, gives no indication of trying to start. After some time elapses it will start no problem and idle fine (most of the time).
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albertj
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albertj

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!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySun Aug 26, 2012 9:15 am

oldmanriver wrote:
Replaced the MAF runs a lil better but it still sputters. I can heat\r the SC trying to move air but, the power is still not there, at times I can feel it @ the top end. Nothing at the bottom or midrange, if I go WHOP from 0mph it struggles and sputters, with gradual improvement through the R’s. I still have the hot start problem, it is most common once the Riv is brought up to temp, sits for about 15-20mins, it turns over and, gives no indication of trying to start. After some time elapses it will start no problem and idle fine (most of the time).

You **may** have a crank sensor that goes bad warm, have to connect a scanner or Tech II to it (code reader will NOT catch it) and see if the crank sensor signal drops out when warm.Since you claim some experience (Abrams) I will give you some detail. I am told: the crank sensor is a Hall Effect sensor encapsulated in plastic. The whole assembly expands and shrinks with engine heat. After many cycles, on many of the original OE sensors the connections to the embedded microchip crack. They tend to reconnect when the assembly shrinks and is cold but open when things expand and they are warm because the encapsulation tends to pull them apart when it expands. The engine computer can compensate for dropped pulses from the crank sensor but not too many and also if the crank sensor is not working properly during the startup sequence it won't enable the engine to run. The problem won't set a code because to the engine computer it looks like you are turning off the ignition key. By the way a bad ignition switch can flake out this way too.

Anyway...

Need a "special" harmonic balancer puller to get to the crank sensor (do a search on this site, basically it's a regular puller with different bolts for the 3800 engine, many AutoZones and CarQuests will "loan" you one for a deposit). It is not unusual for the crank sensors to start going bad warm after 75000 miles or so. IF that is the problem, to fix it DON"T CHEAP OUT but get a Delco or Delphi crank sensor, the cheap (noname, standard T-Series, etc) ones work but will only work a year or 2 (ask us how we know).

Finally - due to the nature of many engine controls, which are encapsulated or otherwise embedded a physical inspection is not sufficient to assure proper operation. You will need a scanner not just a code reader to check for that assurance. One verbose scanner you can get cheaply is at htto;//www.obd-2.com it is called Car Code, they give away the scanner (software for your PC) and sell a dongle that connect between your personal computer and the car's OBD-2 port. It will work on the Rivs that use OBD-2 which if I am not mistaken are MY 1996 (or 1997) and later.
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oldmanriver
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Name : oldmanriver
Location : Pittsburgh, PA
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!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptySun Aug 26, 2012 9:42 pm

Thanks for the reply. through this forum and from my experiances lately I have learned more than I ever intended to know. Tried a scan tool I need OBD1 because of it being “95” it yielded no results. Here is a vid of the power lag/sputter its audible. I will be inspecting the EGR tomorrow. I have heard about the Crank sensors going bad and its correlation with my symptoms.

https://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/oldmanriver88/?action=view¤t=f12cbff5.mp4
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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!!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!!   !!! HELP !!!! Runs Like SHIT// Starts then dies// When it runs NO power!! EmptyMon Aug 27, 2012 5:03 pm

oldmanriver wrote:
Thanks for the reply. through this forum and from my experiances lately I have learned more than I ever intended to know. Tried a scan tool I need OBD1 because of it being “95” it yielded no results. Here is a vid of the power lag/sputter its audible. I will be inspecting the EGR tomorrow. I have heard about the Crank sensors going bad and its correlation with my symptoms.

https://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/oldmanriver88/?action=view¤t=f12cbff5.mp4

Sorry I blinked when I should have read you have a '95. The Tech II will work as a scanner but unless you can physically get to one via a dealer that is closing or a tech that is quitting and hard up for cash they are mad expensive. Hopefully one of the 95 owners will post a pointer to a scanner that will work out.

I do not know what to make of your sputter (yet). I am thinking your best move is to do what you have to do to fix that SES light then diagnose the power lag.

By the way are you in Mt Oliver/Mt Washington/Whitehall somewhere? maybe it is my imagination but that street looks vaguely familiar. Don't answer open post, just send a PM.

If you are going to keep the Riv on the road you will need to learn a lot if only because many mechanics are as likely to break it as fix it if they put it on their hoist, unless you find a gearhead who likes 3800s.

Albertj
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