Name : Mark Age : 58 Location : Canton, NC Joined : 2007-09-16Post Count : 104 Merit : 3
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Sat May 16, 2009 5:08 pm
I've used EBC dimpled/slotted rotors and EBC Ultimax pads front and rear for over 40k miles. I had to replace the fronts after about 30k miles. Great brakes. I'd never go back to stock type rotors or pads. I live in the mountains and have many steep grades to pass over on my 150 mile/day commute.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Mon May 18, 2009 12:54 am
Matthew, I've decided to keep the HP Plus pads for full time duty. I want to see what happens to my rotors when using a more abrasive pad compound. HPS are yours if you want them. I'll send you a PM soon with pics, and can discuss price.
The more I experiment with changing pad compounds, the more I feel they make more of a difference than the rotors or the F-Body calipers. It's true the F-Bodies provide a larger pad surface, and I think that helps to deal with heat and makes the pads wear longer, but I think most of the increased stopping power I saw in the beginning came from swapping to Hawk HPS pads vs. ceramics.
The HP Plus pads I just installed provide an even higher level of stopping power, so can only imagine what would happen with all-out race pads. Not saying the F-Body brake mod isn't worth it, but there is some argument for keeping the stock calipers and just upgrading the pads. I think you would stop just as quickly. The real benefit of the F-Body mod seems to be heat management and increased pad life, imo.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Sun May 24, 2009 12:00 pm
Recently installed Royalty slotted & drilled rotors, which have a lifetime warranty against warping and cracking. I also have the F-Body calipers:
For pads I chose Hawk HP Plus. These are noisy and a bit dusty, but they do what they claim: a plus over Hawk's HPS street compound. I've changed by preference from clean and quiet to all-out performance. I want to be able to stop on a dime, and do it all day without harming the system. These pads certainly stop well, hoping they will last.
Here's some video from last night. I admit, it doesn't look to be braking that fast, but this is the quickest my car has ever slowed from high speed. I think I was decelerating faster than the needle showed, because you can hear the seat fall back while the needle is still moving down:
I was being somewhat conservative in the video. On the first try, it went into ABS mode - a bit scary at that speed.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Sun May 24, 2009 5:34 pm
my needle only moves soo fast too. b/c i'll be at dead stop (from a hard, high speed brake) and the needle will still be moving down. i wish i had an area to do stopping distance trials. it would be nice to see how Stock vs Fbody vs Fbody w/race pads compare.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Sun May 24, 2009 5:41 pm
I'm betting I could guess the outcome of that comparison: Stock = F-body, OEM < HP < Race, in either set-up. I'm really starting to believe it's the pads that make the most difference for actual stopping distance. F-Body mod helps manage heat and extends life of pads (and hopefully rotors too, though I haven't seen such luck).
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Sun May 24, 2009 5:47 pm
i know that's how it would play out too, but i'd like some nubers to see how much they differ. and to compare them to new cars now. what how many feet do C6 vettes stop in (100-0 or 60-0) and see where the fbody w/race pads lies in comparison.
i havent tried performance pads yet, but the shere difference in rotor size for a 96 to a 97+, coupled with the larger calipers made a crazy difference in stopping power.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Mon May 25, 2009 12:10 am
Agreed, I'm sure stepping up the rotor size would make a nice improvement in your case, but I don't think the extra pad area makes much difference for stopping distance. The pad compound though, it seems to matter more. With the HPS you should see another level of improvement.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Mon May 25, 2009 11:42 am
Need to install new rootors tho on my car...right side one vibrates much... could get sheep ones from rockautto for ~60$ or so..and performance 160$...but...SHIPING.....177-185$ thats what stoped me on buying them...60-80$ for shiping would be ok for performance ones i guess....not sure where i could find a company what makes and sells them in europe.
BTW. dos the 96 Riviera shear the same rootors whit any other buicks or GM cars??
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Mon May 25, 2009 12:30 pm
Timo, EBC rotors and pads are distributed through out Europe. Go to www.EBCBrakes.com and click on the flag of your choice at the top of the page. Many other GM cars share the same rotor, just don't know which ones.
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Mon May 25, 2009 1:18 pm
i looked that website...and truyed the european ones..none for sell in fin or est...guess only when order from ther dealers. then truyed uk.. looks like they have only sizes there. need to know bolt holes, diameter, hight and thickness
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:11 pm
i just installed the set of hawk HPS pads i bought from Aaron. Removed the set of Friction Master ceramics that were on the car. went through the brake in procedure and then took them out for a few test stops. here are my conclusions...
Pros: -the HPS pads are much quieter than the ceramics. my old pads would get a little squeaky when hot for some reason. -the HPS pads will stop pretty much the same no matter how many time you hit them.(very little fade) the ceramics would be shot after one good 100-0 stop. -they also have a smooth and consistent feel to them.
Cons: -i liked the initial bit that the ceramics had, and i wish the hawks would "engage" sooner. the ceramics would snap my head forward if i jumped on the brakes quickly, where the hps pads still stop well, but dont have the jolt. -not sure i notice a difference in stopping power :/
i do notice the brakes pull the the right. i checked tire pressure and the right tire was 1psi lower then the left, but i dont think that is the cause. i only notice the car pulling right under heavy braking and the harder i hit it, the more it pulls right. do i need to regrease the slider pins or something? i also plan on rebleading the system and filling with dot 4 syn.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:19 pm
A pull to the right can mean the left caliper is not doing it's job. I recommend pulling both, inspecting and lubing.
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:33 pm
Rickw wrote:
A pull to the right can mean the left caliper is not doing it's job. I recommend pulling both, inspecting and lubing.
I agree
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:48 pm
ok i just pulled the left side to inspect. everything looked OK and the caliper was free to move on the pins. i pulled them anyways and regreased. then bleed that caliper.(didnt see any air come out) went for a quick drive and they worked perfectly fine on 2 hard stops from 70-0. no pull except a slight side to side motion during abs pulsations. thanks for the diagnosis guys.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:39 am
Quote :
Cons: -i liked the initial bit that the ceramics had, and i wish the hawks would "engage" sooner. the ceramics would snap my head forward if i jumped on the brakes quickly, where the hps pads still stop well, but dont have the jolt. -not sure i notice a difference in stopping power :/
I agree about the HPS not biting at slower speeds and when cold. The HPS needs to heat up before it performs. However, it does perform. Moving to HPS from from Akibono ceramics I noticed an increase in stopping at higher speeds, when hot. It seems the faster you are going, the bigger the improvement. Overall, I felt the trade-off was well worth it.
I have been able to push the HPS pads into fade (once), but it's difficult to do, and doesn't last for very long with the F-Body calipers. OEM ceramics would probably offer near zero performance at that point.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
GMfan1111 Amateur
Name : Classified Age : 36 Location : In a undisclosed Bunker somewhere in Metro detroit Joined : 2009-03-05Post Count : 28 Merit : 1
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:18 pm
I'm going to be putting ceramic pads on my car tomorrow. One fo the few flaws in ceramic material is that they tend to retain heat longer than comparable semi metallics but that doesn't happen often but when it does it can sometimes damage nearby brake components. I'll also be getting my rotors turned too so hopefully that'll cut down on the premature pad wear (a common gremlin in the brakes of N body cars)
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:50 pm
Thats true and I know it works wonders in rivs but I have not seen any F bod calipers assembled on N body Chevy Malibus as of yet. I'll take a look around Google later today just to be sure Also if such an upgrade is feasible it would only work on my front brakes (my rear brakes are drums).
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:24 am
Put some info about your car in your sig so we can answer questions accurately. So far all we know is it is a Chevy Malibu.
GMfan1111 Amateur
Name : Classified Age : 36 Location : In a undisclosed Bunker somewhere in Metro detroit Joined : 2009-03-05Post Count : 28 Merit : 1
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:51 am
Rickw wrote:
Put some info about your car in your sig so we can answer questions accurately. So far all we know is it is a Chevy Malibu.
oops sorry the Bu in question is a 2001 Malibu LS model. I usually don't put a pic of it in my sig to keep it out of sight from spy photog hunters who might be roaming the internet. It has a front disc brakes and drums for the rear. It helps get the shots of test cars that i need but it's always had a brake gremlin of some sort during it's time here in our family fleet
EatDirtFartDust Fanatic
Name : The Josh Age : 41 Location : Somewhere between Sullivan and Saint Peters Missouri. Joined : 2009-03-27Post Count : 284 Merit : 2
Subject: [Deal alert] Cross-drilled/slotted rotors and ceramic 95-96 Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:16 pm
I saw these on ebay, offered $150 (with free shipping) and they took it. On the firs try too, so you might even get them cheaper than I did.
Link
Let me know if link doesn't work.
EatDirtFartDust Fanatic
Name : The Josh Age : 41 Location : Somewhere between Sullivan and Saint Peters Missouri. Joined : 2009-03-27Post Count : 284 Merit : 2
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:24 pm
No response?
did I get hosed, and you guys just dont want to tell me?
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:35 pm
I wouldn't say you got hosed (yet). If you get those rotors as described, with 1 year warranty, and 2 sets of pads, I'd say you made out fair for $150. The upgrade was obviously worth that much to you, right?
Make sure you follow the installation instructions exactly, and make a written record or photograph each step. That's the only way you can validate the warranty if needed later on.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
EatDirtFartDust Fanatic
Name : The Josh Age : 41 Location : Somewhere between Sullivan and Saint Peters Missouri. Joined : 2009-03-27Post Count : 284 Merit : 2
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:44 pm
All the cheapest rotors and pads from oreilly's, with my dealership discount would have been about 90 bucks anyway, and to add ceramic pads would have brought it pretty close to $150. I don't do enough spirited driving to warranty these most likely.
I've done somewhere between 10-20 brake jobs in the last 9 years, so I'm not worried about doing it wrong. I have a whole shop and lift at my disposal. I plan on getting some new standard calipers form Oreilly, insalling these, then doing a BG brake fluid flush.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: Brake Rotors and Pads Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:15 pm
I wasn't trying to say you didn't know how, but when you have track-ready rotors with any kind of warranty, and performance pads, the installation procedures can change from "the norm".
For example, the last rotors I installed required that I check run-out with a gauge after mounting to the hubs, rotating the discs until minimal. The pads had a special break-in process that I can't even remember it was so complicated. Just read the instructions and follow them. Take notes or pics and keep in your log book. Even if you don't think you'll need the warranty, it's nice just in case. You don't want to find out in 9 months you got "hosed".