Write-Up: 3800 Series II SC Engine Removal & Installation

Do they usually charge for disposal like a lot of places do for tires?

The fitting is on the drivers side close to the back of the pan. It was not plugged when i bought the motor... I will probably just buy a cap and run a trans cooler the normal way.

Any way to reattach the boot? It looks to be torn up close to the top.

The gap is not huge by any means. Both knuckles are off and there is just a slight gap between the bar and the front of the bushing.

Would take pictures right meow but the car is is my friends garage.

They don't charge where I go. It's just 3 giant containers labeled oil, coolant, and something else.

I think the steering column is bolted to the rack underneath the rubber boot in the engine bay. It might be as simple as one bolt to disconnect the steering shaft. If you lift up the boot it'll be more obvious what I'm talking about.

Alright cool. I was just hoping im not looking at a major job to detach the column. How big of a container will i need to fit all the coolant in? Will a 5 gallon bucket work?

Yes, you just disconnect the Intermediate Shaft from the rack. Hopefully it's not rusted on....

5 gallon bucket is perfect.

Awesome! With any luck the motor will be out tonight!

pics, homie. pics!

Are you removing both engine + trans, or just the engine?

The engine, trans, cradle, and control arms are all coming out. Since im swapping out both and i have access to a lift, i thought it would be easier this way.

I know, i know, im that lucky bastard who gets to use a lift

At 2:30 last night, the motor came out of the car! Today, i will pull it off the cradle, cast my window weld mounts, clean my injectors, and if i have time, replace the ball joints!

Well, ive found a few things:
The GTP motor has a hose that is slightly smaller in diameter that goes to the bottom of the radiator.
In 1997, GM put a different AC pump on the l67 in the GTP than the l67 in the Riv.

And also a question... How bad is a dented oil and trans pan? The oil pan is pretty beat up, the trans pan just has one small ding in it. Im more concerned about the trans pan.

A small ding in the trans pan shouldn't hurt anything. There aren't any moving parts down there so...
I'd be more concerned with a dented oil pan.

I think the trans mounts are different on a GP trans as well. We did some searching for which transmissions will fit our cars. All the P/N's for the transmission cases are different from GP to Riv. Not sure why. I bet you'll find out though.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t2042-faq-what-transmissions-swap-into-our-rivieras-97-99

Yup, i knew about that before i bought the trans. This trans was not the stock trans from the GP, it was a performance rebuild, and the case he used does have the four mounting holes and the webbing in the back.

Would a dented oil pan cause poor oil pickup or foaming? The thing really is pretty beat up...

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

Yup, i knew about that before i bought the trans. This trans was not the stock trans from the GP, it was a performance rebuild, and the case he used does have the four mounting holes and the webbing in the back.

Would a dented oil pan cause poor oil pickup or foaming? The thing really is pretty beat up...

Ah, I must've missed that part. Cool shit.

The only way a dented oil pan would cause poor pickup or foaming is if it were severely dented right under the pickup tube, and caused it to suck air (which is BAD).

Could i just take it off and pound it out with a hammer? It wont crack or anything will it? After going through all this trouble, i dont want a dented oil pan to blow up my car. lol

I also swapped a GTP motor into my '98 (was from an '00 GTP). I unbolted every single bracket and bolt I could find on the GTP motor and swapped every single bracket and bolt from my Riv block. The two blocks were identical.

I was not aware of any difference on the lower radiator hose output. Interesting. Must by a '97 thing.

Dang it. I have a dent in my oil pan and now I'm afraid. It's not huge but anything but perfection is not good enough for me.

Thanks for scaring me straight, Scott.

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:

Could i just take it off and pound it out with a hammer? It wont crack or anything will it? After going through all this trouble, i dont want a dented oil pan to blow up my car. lol

You could. But keep in mind that every time you bend it, you take away structural integrity. Not that it's structural to the engine at all, I just meant the integrity of the pan itself. It's nothing more than sheet metal thin. Mine has been dented since I bought the car. The last oil change I did, the oil pan twisted when I went to take out the drain plug  
I guess it finally had enough....

If you're going to take it off, a straight replacement from a yard couldn't cost much. Why not find one, apply a nice coat of paint and a fresh seal while you're at it?

deekster_caddy wrote:

I also swapped a GTP motor into my '98 (was from an '00 GTP). I unbolted every single bracket and bolt I could find on the GTP motor and swapped every single bracket and bolt from my Riv block. The two blocks were identical.

I was not aware of any difference on the lower radiator hose output. Interesting. Must by a '97 thing.

It is amazing how many brackets are different. I really did have to take it down to the bare block before i could put the riv brackets on it. Getting the bracket for the passenger side lower motor mount off was the worst!

Chalrie, im seeing another trip to the junkyard! haha

Also, some bolts were covered in grease, so I didn't even realize they were there until I got things stripped down. One or two bolts were literally just there to plug bolt holes in the end of the head. I think there was a 'plug-bolt' on the GTP head where our ignition module bolted on (or something like that).

There was one plugging the top hole that our side motor mount bracket uses. The bolt behind the transaxle that held the bracket for the bottom motor mount on was the biggest PITA to get to.

I got the car started for the first time. I havent had it running for long because it likes to make really loud exploding sounds with the open headers. Is that normal?

Exploding sounds? No, not normal. Remember though, you have a modded engine with a stock PCM now. It's not going to run "normal" until it gets programmed.

What mods did you do? Shouldn't affect idle and basic cruising RPM unless you changed the cam or messed with timing. Any change to the intake/TB/MAFF?

Check your ignition wires are routed correctly.

AA wrote:

What mods did you do? Shouldn't affect idle and basic cruising RPM unless you changed the cam or messed with timing. Any change to the intake/TB/MAFF?

Check your ignition wires are routed correctly.

Yes. Enough to mess up the factory tune. I talked to him yesterday about it regarding tuning. Don't know if he wants anyone to know what's done until we get it all tuned and figured out.
Of course, it is CERTAINLY possible that a wire is crossed lol.

I only said that because the PCM shouldn't operate much differently for normal idle/driving, even with most bolt on mods. If he's not in boost, I don't see why there's a problem. Yes a cam? Using a different MAFF sensor would do it. I'm guessing timing is stock without a tune.

I know. He does have a ZZP 72mm TB, No EGR, and some other things. I can only imagine that the PCM is confused as all hell. His new trans has 3.29 gears as well (he thinks). It IS out of a Grand Prix, so it's possible it does, even stock. I just might have to make a trip down there. I don't think the new engine/trans is going to be very road-friendly until it at least gets a base tune.