Write-Up: Hockey Puck & Casting Front/Side Motor Mounts

98inSFl wrote:

This will also get me some practice if I have to do it for real.

Just make sure you guys use the Primer (which is an adhesion promoter) before you fill the mount, otherwise you run the chance of it separating from the metal.

I had a bottle of primer when I used urethane to re-bond my center roof panel but it has since dried up.

My attempt on the beater KIA will be with some rubber still in place, long term is not really a consideration I am simply curious to see if it will work at all.

98inSFl wrote:

My attempt on the beater KIA will be with some rubber still in place, long term is not really a consideration I am simply curious to see if it will work at all.

The mount I posted pics of HAS the old rubber in place. You don't have to get rid of it. The reason you can't see any of the old is because I filled it all the way out to the edges of the steel. The factory mount was "recessed".

As I've mentioned to some, I've been experiencing some very noticable vibration and sometimes a little noise. Knowing that I have two cradle mounts that are pretty much shot, I figured that those were the reason for the vibration. I popped my hood today to add some washer solvent and started it up to give the engine a quick lookover. It occurred to me at that point that the motor was shaking like it did before I did the front mount. I know that when I did the hocky puck mount, it was rock solid. "So what the hell?" I think. I drove the car back home and took a closer look and this is what I found.






This SUCKS.

I'm glad I'm finding it now before I go to replace the cradle mounts and I could have missed it and then I'd really be pulling my hair out.

Anyway, the lesson learned here is that the subframe can't hold up to that kind of force. I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with this now but I'm open to suggestions. I really do not want to put that shit ass OEM mount back on. I shit you not - the motor shook just as much with that mount as it does now with no mount there.

Did you look at the Pic that was posted in the Post Titled "96 Front Trans Mount", by 97 Park Ave db, a couple of post down.
Use the original metal mount and install the Hockey pucks sideways. That is one way. Personally i don't think that will hold up with big HP over time.

But I would grind and weld that hole closed so the cracks don't spread as well. At minimum close the gaps at the cracks, grind clean and weld all the cracks closed so they won't continue to spread. Then grind smooth and add reinforcement.
If you want to keep the Hockey Puck arrangement, you will want to weld a repair patch and another layer of steel that will wrap around the sub- frame and cover an area that is wider than the original and re-drill and start over with something that will be much more reinforced.

May look bad, but is quite repairable and as I said reinforce with a heavier gage steel.
It's all part of the modification game.
Good luck
Rick

BTW, Please take pic's of the shimming of the Cradle for clearance, if you will.
It would be greatly appreciated.

I ordered two 1lb kits of 65A poly from mcmaster and the spray release agent for poly [part# 1409K34]. Hopefully my front mount will come out something like Erics. I need it badly. Eric, do you remember how long it took to get the stuff? Website says it will ship tomorrow. Sooner I can do it, the better. I'm driving the car without a front mount right now and have been for a little while since I didn't kow until recently that the hocky puck mount failed.

I'll probably have some questions for you Eric.

Oh holy shit, McMaster is a town away from my house. I guess I'll just go pick it up... haha
Nevermind the question about ship time

turtleman wrote:

I'm driving the car without a front mount right now, and have been for a little while since I didn't know until recently that the hockey puck mount failed.

Okay, I just can't resist the Don Rickles: "You Hockey Puck!"


PS - Hey, it's been over 24 hours since we heard anything about Manuel's car...

I stripped the insulator housing of all paint and poured the poly today. I'll be installing it probably saturday. The poly will be cured in 48 hours and I need to at least spray it with some rust inhibitive paint too, before it goes in.


I got a new sleeve because getting all the rubber off the original was taking way too much time & effort. Also this one is the exact width of the area that the poly will cover [2"] so it will make the mold much easier to deal with than the longer original sleeve.




I basically used a few layers of strategically shaped cardboard to make a floor for the poly to set on. I sprayed the cardboard generously with the spray release agent. I couldn't think of a better way to do it but I think it should be ok. I was using the c-clamp to hold the bolt sleeve down since the layers of cardboard were pushing it up. I couldn't get it to hold the sleeve up straight though so after trying silly things to make it work for a while, I found that the cardboard had pressed down under the sleeve so I didn't really have to force it down which is why in the picture below where the poly is poured, it's sitting pretty much freely.


hope this works

Just to point it out, Eric did have a problem with the round sleeve in his poly "P" mount (passenger side motor mount) augering out in the poly and there is, I think, an oppertunity for that to happen on this one so we'll have to see how it goes. One thing that I think should help in my case is that the poly I'm using is less stiff than what Eric is using so that should definitely help prevent that.

turtleman wrote:

Just to point it out, Eric did have a problem with the round sleeve in his poly "P" mount (passenger side motor mount) augering out in the poly and there is, I think, an oppertunity for that to happen on this one so we'll have to see how it goes. One thing that I think should help in my case is that the poly I'm using is less stiff than what Eric is using so that should definitely help prevent that.

I wonder if the stuff shrinks when it sets, possibly assisting in the later movement. Also if there's some kind of primer you can put on the metal so it sticks better - there is a metal primer for locktite...

deekster_caddy wrote:

turtleman wrote:

Just to point it out, Eric did have a problem with the round sleeve in his poly "P" mount (passenger side motor mount) augering out in the poly and there is, I think, an oppertunity for that to happen on this one so we'll have to see how it goes. One thing that I think should help in my case is that the poly I'm using is less stiff than what Eric is using so that should definitely help prevent that.

I wonder if the stuff shrinks when it sets, possibly assisting in the later movement. Also if there's some kind of primer you can put on the metal so it sticks better - there is a metal primer for locktite...

According to the literature, it shows "Linear Shrinkage D-2566 (1.125" Deep - .0005 in/in"

There indeed are adhesive primers that can be used. I didn't because no one else ever does for motor mounts? I won't be crying if I end up doing this again but at the moment, I really just need a functional mount there as soon as possible.

Cody,
Could you please post the McMaster Carr Part Numbers of all the products necesary to do the mounts.

If you could just just take your invoice and put the P/N's down on here of all the stuff you bought, it would be greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure many others.

I have tried until i have an eyeball headache to look through that on-line catalog and i keep coming up empty on my queries.
I also need the 2 " spacer number.

Thanks,
Rick

turtleman wrote:

There indeed are adhesive primers that can be used. I didn't because no one else ever does for motor mounts? I won't be crying if I end up doing this again but at the moment, I really just need a functional mount there as soon as possible.

I used adhesive primer on both of mine. The very first "experiment" I attempted had no primer. The urethane soon separated from the cage......

Abaddon wrote:

turtleman wrote:

There indeed are adhesive primers that can be used. I didn't because no one else ever does for motor mounts? I won't be crying if I end up doing this again but at the moment, I really just need a functional mount there as soon as possible.

I used adhesive primer on both of mine. The very first "experiment" I attempted had no primer. The urethane soon separated from the cage......

haha - like I said - probably gonna do it again. Unlike most people, I really don't mind doing things more than once. (which I'm sure the members here have noticed about me) If I learn all the ways how to perfect it from the first time, I'm happy with the experiment.

I had the mount poured by 9pm CST and I'm thinking I'm going to spray it with the anti rust paint tonight and then get it on the car some time tomorrow. The cure time given for the poly is 2 days (notes about 90% properties at that 2 day point) so I'm thinking that should be fine I am dieing to get a mount back on there!

Cody,
Could you please post the McMaster Carr Part Numbers of all the
products necesary to do the mounts.

If you could just just take
your invoice and put the P/N's down on here of all the stuff you bought,
it would be greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure many others.

I
have tried until i have an eyeball headache to look through that
on-line catalog and i keep coming up empty on my queries.
I also need
the 2 " spacer number.

Thanks,
Rick

Sorry, but copied from a few post's up.

Sorry for the delay, Rick.

I entered the part number Eric listed for the 60A poly kit.


Per my invoice, the part numbers are

8644K24 - Urethane casting compound - 1lb complete kit (I bought two of those at $33.33 each. 1lb is enough to do one mount with a comfortable amount left over.)

1409K34 - Mold-release lubricant - silicone based for Urethane & Styrene (comes as an aerosol spray)

I don't have a part number for the sleeve but I got it at Ace Hardware. It's a 2" zinc-plated metal sleeve for 7/16" bolt IIRC. The bolt fits snug as hell in it. It's in the section with all the bolts and stuff. If I get over there again for something, I'll see if there's a part number and double check if I'm remembering the size right but I remember it was $10.99.

Thanks Cody,
Now i can order the stuff from McMaster-Carr.
That really did give me a friggin headache looking for it.
I much prefer a paper catalog in front of me. but these companies don't make them any more.
I can see why, paper is expensive, digit's on the internet, not so expensive.
Thanks again,
Rick

turtleman wrote:

Sorry for the delay, Rick.

I entered the part number Eric listed for the 60A poly kit.

Per my invoice, the part numbers are

8644K24 - Urethane casting compound - 1lb complete kit (I bought two of those at $33.33 each. 1lb is enough to do one mount with a comfortable amount left over.)

just for further clarification ( I Know I am A Pain In The Arse) but the number you provided is for a workable Durometer, not what turned out to be almost Cast Iron Durometer that Erik first ordered, correct.

Rick I have a paper mcmaster and grainger catalog. But they are huuuuuge. I think you gave to have a business to get them.

Make sure you get the metal adhesiv primer!

I have a Grainger and an MSC Catalog Also, only problem is they are dated 98/99.
Probably the last years they offered catalogs for free.
But, As you say, I was also the Director of MX for a major corp at the time and they sent me what i asked for because we spent a lot of money with them.
Corporate accounts can have it's advantages.
Used to get Newark catalogs every year too. Does anybody remember them. i had the company founder and his son come make a business call to me in of all places "Newark Int'l Airport", while I was running the Aircraft Maintenance department for Continental Airlines.
Way back when we had just taken over Peoples Express and were re-organizing while still building what is now terminal C.

deekster_caddy wrote:

Make sure you get the metal adhesiv primer!

Yes i plan to look that up as well.
If I am going to do this, I'll do it correctly, or at least as correct as they say you should do it.
Thanks,
Rick

If I put a large washer there like I did on top, this mount probably would have been fine.


That's the aftermath of the hocky puck mount from the top.


top side of mold


bottem of mold


bolt fitting super snug


had to paint it so the bracket doesn't rust


installed - I don't think the damage from the last mount will cause any issues.


and... FAIL
Poly is pulled away from the bottom of the sleeve on both sides.
This is probably for two reasons. I didn't use the adhesive primer and the sleeve wasn't lined up with the bolt that well. It was at a slant. Eric also said that a square sleeve would be better but I'm still not sure why it would be?


Even in this state, it's still a shit ton better than having no mount and better than my OEM one in the condition it was in. In fact, that's not even bad. I'm sure it'll be fine long enough for me to get hold of another mount bracket and make another one.

very nice.