FAQ: Horn Problems

turtleman wrote:

My horns do pretty much the same thing. I think the horn button on my old steering wheel got stuck on and they must have sounded for an unknown amount of time so now they just make a really weak sound and blow the fuse after some seconds. My prognosis is the horns are blown. I know my switch and relay are fine.

You'll notice in my signature I put in 4 horns, they sound a dissonant chord. No matter how loud the horn is it is only so loud. In my experience you can simply piggyback the other horns on, don't need additional relays if the horns you are installing are not already wack - if the horns are good the circuit will carry 5 or 6... The dissonance is useful because then when I blow the horn in an urban area it does not sound like a horn on anybody's Urban Boogie sound track or whatever,and in rural areas the animals hate it. Let's just call it "conspicuity."

Albertj

Thanks everyone, a ton. I know it's a silly problem but with all the morons behind wheels, I feel compelled to use that horn at least 4 or 5 times per week (I don't drive far). Anyone have any they can send my way? I don't have any reliable junkyards near me anymore. Also, it's freezing outside lol.

But seriously, thanks everyone. This is why I come to this site.

Btw Albert, I love the notes you picked for your horns lol. Being a music major, it ring's a terrible sounding bell

Z-type wrote:

Btw Albert, I love the notes you picked for your horns lol. Being a music major, it ring's a terrible sounding bell

Exactly. As I said it's not *That* loud but it is a mean snarly chord.

The odd note was the NOS horn I got, the others were off an olds and a caddy. The 90s olds 98 came with 3-note horns. Have to go back to 80s to get the caddies with 4 note horns and a lot of them were clapped out due to location (in the road spash under the fenders). If you can pull them right the junkyard horns already come with the correct connectors. Connectors from GM are like $5 at a dealer - plastic plug with wire pigtails and a clip that snaps over the terminals on the current Fiamm/Signaltone horns. So theoretically you could get the wiring bits at a dealer then go to AutoZone and for $20 get a pair of horns. They should let you snap open the hirn pak to check to see the wiring clips on.

If you are flush you can still get the 4 notes and a couple others new from GM but you will need a parts guy to help find the numbers and notes I don't have that info anymore.

Anymore pretty much all car horns are 2 notes, A and F above middle C is a popular combination. GMs answer to noise restrictions in major cities was to put only 1 horn on - so even the 2-note cars if manufactured for/delivered new in Philadalphia say after a certain date would have one horn. Never really understood that.

Interestingly enough, I had to go over to my garage to fill up my portable air tank. While it was filling up, I found the old low note horn from my T-type, and it said Eb! I was surprised to find an odd one like that coming from that car.

Anyway, in my quest to stay OEM, I'm trying to get some horns from Ed Morad.

Thanks again for the advice/opinions everyone. I hope this fixes the problem.

-Andrew Z

Hey everyone, will these work? They look correct.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260402848370&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Z-type wrote:

Hey everyone, will these work? They look correct.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260402848370&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

They might work if you bent the brackets; Ed's price is a little high because you can get a new pair of Fiamms from Advance Auto for $19.99 with bracket bits that you can use to double-gang horns at the OE locatoins (if you wanted more notes)

With those horns I think you will have to at least bend the brackets to make them fit. Not that big a deal, though. The other thing is that, truth be told, if you remove them with care you can remove and reuse the OE connectors on your old horns, basically you drill out the rivet heads and take 'em off. To reuse them wire them (solder) onto the new hrn with short wire jumpers then epoxy the connector to the horn somewhere plain and flat on teh metal back or plastic horn.

By the way you could add your eflat horn by carefully drilling out the spotwelds where the OE bracket is welded on to the horn. Have to *just* drill 'em out or you'll damage the horn motor. I did this successfully with 2 horns some time ago. You can then poprivet another bracket (basically a mending strap/flat iron) onto the flat sheetmetal sides of the horn if you want.

Albertj

Albert - I read through what you said a few times and came up with a plan. Whatever horns I get (checking advance tomorrow) I can easily remove and reinstall the bracket from the Riv. I went and picked that horn i was talking about earlier out of my garage and checked it out. Turns out it's the same as the ones in the link from Morad (duh Lesabre and Bonneville same body style since 1987). So what I'm wondering, if it turns out I do get those ones from Morad, the electrical connectors should be the same as the Riv, correct? I would assume they updated those connections from the old clip-style contacts.

BTW - I think these are definitely bad...

The Riv bracket won't reinstall on many/most replacement horns, there's not enough flat area away from the horn motor. For instance on the FIAMM horns you don't want to drill into the metal back, that's where the windings for the horn electromagnet are. BUT the little straps (flat irons, mending irons, what have you) they come with bolt right onto the points where the factory mounts go. Just reuse the factory bolt to bolt the strap to the frame, then fit the horn and secure it with a lock washer and nut (there will be a stud on the back of the horn).

If you have junkyard Delco horns you can move the OE brackets no problem as you said. Then in the case of the horns from Morad you cut off the factory mount with a Dremel Moto-tool or some such. However I bet the welded on brackets fit if you grind off the little tabs or some such. Use loctite on the bolts and mount flats and they will stay put.

What you want to do I think is use a 12V battery or charger (a trickle charger will probably do) and test the horns. If they work you might just want to repaint them. The rivets on the sockets can be used as test points, you can tell if the plug is bad by testing there instead of probing the plug with pins or what have you. You can tell polarity using a meter to check for continuity between the rivets and the metal on the horn. A short is the "-" terminal. If both terminals short chuck the horn unless you want to disassemble and rebuild it (I do not know how to do that).

Just because the horns look bad does not equate they are bad. A bad one either will not blow or will draw too much current. And if you repaint them right I don't know how long they stay nice--I have had one I repainted for many years now it still looks good. However what I did was clean it with 409 spray and a rag, then treated it with rust converter, then ground off the rust, then retreated it with rust converter, then primed it, then repainted it. I also used an ammeter to check current while blowing them - the little screw can be used to retune them. Pitch won't change but what you're doing is adjusting the screw for the best combination of high volume and low current draw. Put 12v on it thru the ammeter and turn the screw for best loudness while watching the meter, then adjust screw for low current draw while at the same time listening to hear that the horn is still blowing loud and clear not warbling or rasping. If you are not mounting 4 horns thru the OE circuit then just tune for loud & clear. You can detune a little if you like the snarlier detuned sound, but I don't recommend that it because it increases the current draw for no reason.

It'll be interesting to see if you install D-Eb-A-F... If you really get obsessive about it (or if it warms up) you can find C and G also.

By the way - D-Eb-A-F was *not* the Cadillac diminished 7th chord, I think that was C-D-F-A or D-F-A-C (tones ascending from middle C or D). D-Eb-A-F (actually in pitch order it's Eb-D-F-A I think) are prominent chords in the Beatles' "Something in the Way She Moves Me." (heh heh)



Albertj

I have 2 nice ones,look same plug off 90 riv

Thanks albert, you're always full of the most useful information! I do intend to test my old horns, but I just need to find the time to get to it. Luckily, I have several 12 volt sources around the house.

This may seem a silly question, but does the horn even need bolted onto the car to be grounded? I would assume not because of the plug configuration. I know the old style horns need to be bolted to be grounded. I'll play with them....now I'm curious.

Flyineagle - I'll get back to you! Thanks!

Well, my dad and I messed with the horns a bit...the high note was still good, the low one was definitely Fubar'ed. The low one sounded like a cow, not a horn. Anyway, took a couple configurations of wiring to text the horns, but the point is, one still works, so the low one must have been shorting out the system. Even my volt/ohm meter didn't read it right.

So, I'm waiting for the horns I found to come in and I'll rig it up to the system.

Who knew....

Anyway, I'll update whenever I get the new horns in.

Thanks again everyone,

-Andrew Z

Z-type wrote:

Thanks albert, you're always full of the most useful information! I do intend to test my old horns, but I just need to find the time to get to it. Luckily, I have several 12 volt sources around the house.

This may seem a silly question, but does the horn even need bolted onto the car to be grounded? I would assume not because of the plug configuration. I know the old style horns need to be bolted to be grounded. I'll play with them....now I'm curious.

Flyineagle - I'll get back to you! Thanks!

If you are using the old Delco horns, they really should be bolted onto the frame to be grounded, use a little conductive paste (like noalox) on the bolt head and a little loctite on the threads (as you know the horns are easy to work on but in an inconvenient spot). When they stuck the new weatherpak connectors on the horns they grounded one line and ran the other to the hot horn wire. On the old horns there is usually a ground tab for a spade connector in an obvious location on the horn case. The hot spade is riveted onto a fiber washer.

If you are using replacement horns, you need to use the terminals as neither is necessarily grounded AND check with an ohmmeter. Usually there is continuity between the ground terminal and the mounting stud.

Happy horning.

Albertj

Thanks Albert...I shouldn't have to use any older horns at this point, but in some ways, thats the beauty of them...simplicity lol. One plug and bolt it on. I do have a few extra old horns, but they're for my sister's Reatta when it come out of storage.

-Andrew Z

you don't *have to* use older horns, it's just that newer horns don't come in so many notes. Typically you can get a low and a high tone per manufacturer. Hella offers 300 and 500 Hz. Wolo offers 335 and 425 Hz in electric, more in air. Wolo horns (with sound samples!) are at

http://www.wolo-mfg.com/elec.htm


As I said above, happy horning.

Thanks albert! Very cool site.

Who knew trying to replace something like this would be so involved...

Too bad...I like 'old' cars.

-Andrew Z

Z-type wrote:

Thanks albert! Very cool site.

Who knew trying to replace something like this would be so involved...

Too bad...I like 'old' cars.

-Andrew Z

it's actually not that involved. The Riv's standard horns are easily replaced with a couple Wolo's or some such. What's more, though, is that we happen to know that there were/are different tones used on horns for various reasons. A pair of "replacement" Hellas with a pair of "replacement" Wolos gets you 300-335-425-500, or D-E-A (a really dull A, A should be more like 440)-B (a bright B).

Albertj

I think just for my own amusement, when it's time to get the Lesabre T-type back out, I'm going to get another pair of horns for it and hook them up. I'll have to do some digging for different notes like you said, Albert. Should sound cool.

Anyway, the horn system is all fixed now. I got my new horns in the mail. I removed the mounting bracket from the new one, rigged up the plastic part of the bracket from my old horn, modified the metal mount part of the bracket from the car, and bam...loud and proud. I'm sick of being under the front bumper lol.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Andrew Z

Z-type wrote:

I think just for my own amusement, when it's time to get the Lesabre T-type back out, I'm going to get another pair of horns for it and hook them up. I'll have to do some digging for different notes like you said, Albert. Should sound cool.

Anyway, the horn system is all fixed now. I got my new horns in the mail. I removed the mounting bracket from the new one, rigged up the plastic part of the bracket from my old horn, modified the metal mount part of the bracket from the car, and bam...loud and proud. I'm sick of being under the front bumper lol.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Andrew Z

yeah messing with the horns is not difficult, but is very disorienting. I do not want to mess with them again for a while.

Albertj

how to change horn one 95 riviera last thing in my way just installed new two tone interior someone please help

ive changed the horn and them relay need help

winriv95 wrote:

ive changed the horn and them relay need help

if you did not disconnect power before working on the horn, go back and check your fuses please.

there wasnt even a battery in them car at time... but ive check fuser and relay both get power. I even hot wired horn and it works I dont know of anything else it come best

You could contact Ed Morad at moradpartscompany.com (he is an ebay seller) and see if he has a replacement horn switch (it covers the airbag) in a color you want - assuming your switch is not working, because you said you changed the horn and the relay.

One thing - there are two horns, one under each fender. Make sure both are in; test with a 12v source.

Another thing - double check to see that the components you installed were indeed good.

Another thing - is it possible that you had an open connection in the installation of your replacement horn?

Is your air bag light on? Could be the clock spring for the SRS(supplemental restraint system).